Roderick Scott: The ‘Black George Zimmerman’ Acquitted of Murder in 2009

Roderick Scott, acquitted of killing 17-year-old white teen Christopher Cervini. Photo: Greece New York Police mug shot

Roderick Scott, acquitted of killing 17-year-old white teen Christopher Cervini. How similar was this case to the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case? Photo: Greece New York Police mug shot

Roderick Scott, an African American man, shot and killed Christopher Cervini, a 17-year-old white youth, in 2009.

Scott faced a charge of first-degree manslaughter, and claimed he shot the teen in self defense.

Scott was subsequently acquitted.

All this happened in New York State, which, even back then, had much tougher gun and self defense laws than the state of Florida has.

What are the legal similarities and differences between this case and the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case?

Three Teens Breaking into Cars

During the early morning hours of April 4, 2009, 42-year-old Roderick Scott was asleep on the couch of his Greece, New York home, just outside of Rochester. He was awakened by some noise outside.

Scott looked out the window and saw three teens attempting to break into his car. He grabbed his gun, for which he had a legal permit, put it in his waistband and told his girlfriend to call 911 before going outside.

When Scott went out, he confronted the youths, who were going through a neighbor’s car. According to Scott, he told them to stop and wait for the police. The incident ended after Scott fired two shots at Christopher Cervini, killing him.

What Happened? Accounts Differ

According to 15-year-old James Cervini, one of the three, and Christopher’s cousin, Scott shot Christopher after the teen yelled, “Please don’t shoot me, I’m just a kid.” Scott, who testified in his own defense, said he only fired after Christopher came running at him in a threatening manner.

Scott’s attorney, James Parrinello, argued it was likely Christopher went at Scott to give James a chance to get away. James was already bound by two probation orders and the consequences of being charged with breaking into cars would have been more serious for him.

Scott Originally Charged with Murder

Unlike George Zimmerman, Scott was immediately arrested after the shooting and charged with murder. A grand jury later reduced the charge to first-degree manslaughter. The jury deliberated for about 19 hours before rendering a verdict of not guilty on December 18, 2009.

Manslaughter and Self Defense in New York State

Under section 125.20 of the New York Penal Law, first-degree manslaughter is defined as when a person intends to cause serious physical injury to another person and causes the death of that person or a third party. First-degree manslaughter also applies to cases that would otherwise constitute murder but the defendant, at the time the act was committed, suffered from extreme emotional disturbance.

It is clear that at the time Scott fired two shots into Cervini, he intended to cause serious physical injury to Cervini. He would have had to have been convicted of manslaughter unless the killing was justified.

Under New York law, deadly physical force is defined as the use of force that can reasonably be expected to cause death or serious physical injury. Under section 35.15 of the New York Penal Law, deadly physical force is justified if the person who uses it has a reasonable belief that the other person is using or is about to use deadly  physical force against him or her.

In New York, the use of deadly physical force is not justified if the defendant is not in his or her dwelling and they have an opportunity to safely retreat from the situation. The New York Penal Law is similar to the law of Florida in terms of the onus of proof. A defendant need not prove a killing is justified and the jury must acquit unless they are satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt that the killing was not justified.

Click to Read Page Two: Zimmerman and Scott – Case Similarities

© Copyright 2013 Arthur Weinreb, All rights Reserved. Written For: Decoded Science

Pages: 1 2

  • teflonron

    Hello?

  • Joan

    Are you KIDDING me???

  • Joshua50

    I thought self defense in this case only applied to being in your home, not out on the street.. Scott willfully committed murder by not retreating.

  • noin007

    Also, unlike Zimmerman, Scott was actually the kind of case where Stand Your Ground would apply. Zimmerman attempted to get away and was completely unable to. Scott made no attempt to flee and quite possibly could have.

    But, anyone who looks at this can see the truth clear as day. This isn’t about what happened. This is about pushing the race card in order to create a bigger divide in the country.

  • Max Gold

    There is no comparison. The victim in this case was actually committing a crime. Therein lies the crucial difference. If Trayvon was actually ‘UP TO NO GOOD’ as paranoid George claims, people wouldn’t have so much of a problem with it. George obviously had malicious contempt for anybody strange in his neighbourhood he didn’t recognise. Zimmermans routine of regularly ringing 911 reporting everyone and anyone based on nothing truly suspicious is evidence of some type of mental illness. Possibly facilitated by his adderall and benzodiazepine use.

  • FreedomFromIgnorance

    Hilarious how you Trayvon supporters think you know all the distinctions that matter, yet make incredible assumptions to fuel your passionate outrage. You are a joke.

  • rightsman

    Three boys who happened to be white, were up to no good. One died, one had a record. When you trespass onto someone else’s property, you have crossed a line that puts you in danger. The potential danger may be deadly, and that is what should be known. The outcome of the trials is after the fact. If one is foolish enough to be breaking into someone’s car, then they should have been made aware of the fact of the potential danger by their parents, the community, or others. Peace, Robert Walker

  • eric24

    You are correct. There is no comparison because Trayvon physically attacked Zimmerman while Cervini never made any physical contact with Scott. Therein lies the crucial difference. So according to you Zimmerman should have been guilty because HE was attacked, and Cervini deserved to get shot and killed because he attempted to break in to the guy’s car? You Trayvon supporters are WAY OUT OF LINE. It is ok for a black guy to kill a white kid when the kid never posed any physical threat, but it is not ok for a Hispanic to shot a black kid after the black kid physically assaulted him. It’s people like you who complain about racism the loudest yet it is people like you that are the biggest racist out there.

  • Joshua50

    You conveniently forget Trayvon Martin’s toxicology report also showed that he was a heavy user of Dextromethorphan . He had brain and liver damage as a result. Pancreatitis was also present which means he was a heavy drinker.

    The New York law only applies to self defense within your home, not outside, and especially not in your neighbor’s yard. It wasn’t even Scott’s car these children were rummaging through. He just wanted to kill someone. He called 911 after the fact, unlike Zimmerman.

    I’d like to see his past criminal record..

  • DDColding

    Joshua50, please provide a link with your asertion that he was a heavy drug user. And do you just make stuff up? It said in the story that he told his wife to call 911 before he went outside.

  • Joshua50

    Scott shot back? I saw nothing about Christopher Cervini having a gun or shooting at Scott.. You don’t have the right to kill someone over someone else’s personal property, that’s not self defense.

  • Joshua50

    The toxicology report has it all, but it was suppressed by the judge in the Zimmerman trial to protect Martin’s reputation. Google it, moderation doesn’t allow a link apparently.

    I’m not sure about the 911 call, but there was no need for him to shoot anyone, he should have stayed in his house and let the police o there job.

  • DDColding

    And do you feel the same way about George Zimmerman in the beginning of this episode? Had he stayed in his car, there is a good chance no one would be killed.

  • Joshua50

    In hindsight, I imagine Zimmerman wishes he had stayed in his vehicle.

    The difference between the two case however is, there is no law in Florida against observing someone as Zimmerman did that I’m aware of. There is however a law against attempting to beat another to death.

    Mr. Scot was not assaulted, it was not his property being stolen, and he had no legal right under New York law to exit his residence with a firearm. The Self defense laws in this case applied only to defending his own home, not his neighbor’s property.

    I don’t think any material possession is worth another person’s life, especially a child’s. Wouldn’t you agree?

  • Joshua50

    The truth of the matter is none of us were there to see what really occurred, all we have is Mr. Scott’s testimony to base our opinions on.

  • mrmocha

    so this is exactly like the Trayvon case except there were three… and they were actually doing a crime… on the property of the person with the gun… who was confirmed by witnesses that the gun owner was approached in a threatening manner….

    oh I see. It’s exactly like a plainclothes civilian stalking a black youth who hasn’t committed a crime and then gunning down said minor on neutral property after the minor reacted negatively to an adult stalking him with a gun. I’ve Got It!

  • DB

    There is no toxicology report that shows DXM abuse. The Autopsy report shows the liver and brain to be normal. This is not consistent with this type of abuse. He did have traces of THC, (The active ingredient in Marijuana) but that would not contribute to any violent behavior on the part of Trayvon, it only indicates that he had recently consumed pot.

  • truemoboy

    It’s called “stalking”. And it’s against the law.

  • YeaMhmOk

    The toxicology report only shows that there was THC in Martin’s blood. Nothing about organ damage or usage of any other drugs.

    The judge allowed the toxicology report to be used but the defense decided against it.

    Either you have a really bad biased source or you’re just making shit up.

  • Nell Torres

    Zimmerman disregarded the 911 dispatchers commands, which should have landed him with a huge charge. This is a case that Stand Your Ground would have definitely applied since the teens trespassed on his property and he caught them in the act of committing a crime…unlike Trayvon. Seems like our Judges and Juries aren’t reading the same law books.

  • http://www.politicalseason.blogspot.com PoliticalSeason

    That is Zimmerman’s version of events. No one saw how the conflict began. He claims he was ambushed in a surprise sneak attack. I’ve never believed his version. Based on past behavior and the natural continuation of what he was doing that night, I think the likely scenario is that he confronted Martin and probably tried to detain him for police. Since he had no authority to do so, Martin more than likely resisted that and it escalated to a physical struggle, which Martin was winning, so Zimmerman shot him. That story is far more plausible than his account of a kid simply walking home all of sudden going super silent ninja on him.

    other difference in this case, while no physical contact, Scott was confronted with a 3 on 1 situation. A seemingly aggressive move under those circumstance against him was foolish.

    Yet another difference is no history of aggressive behavior or run ins with the law by Scott. Zimmerman assaulted a cop once and was fired from a bouncer club at an unlicensed bar for being too aggressive. You didn’t hear about that at trial either.

    In any event, Zimmerman was acquitted, full stop. So there is no grievance to be had in comparing the two cases.

  • http://www.politicalseason.blogspot.com PoliticalSeason

    Not if the person they are beating into the ground was armed, had stalked them at night in the dark, confronted them and tried to detain them. That sounds a lot like self defense.

  • Joshua50

    I’m not making anything up. All you have to do is a little research of your own to find the pertinent facts. The defense didn’t need the toxicology report to have a “Not Guilty” verdict rendered. It was a clear case of self defense and the jury obviously agreed.

  • Kelly Adams

    Didn’t Zimmerman stay until the police got there? And then went to the police station right after for questioning?

  • Joshua50

    If Rachel Jeantel is to believed, she stated in court that Trayvon confronted Zimmerman, not the other way around. Now she is saying she believe Trayvon threw the first punch.. Which version of her story is the truth, who knows..

    All the evidence including Zimmerman’s injuries support his self defense claim. Trayvon had no injuries other than an abrasion on his hand which was consistent with striking something hard.

    As we both know, a lot of Trayvon’s background was suppressed during the trial. If it had been allowed in court, there would be no discussion about who the aggressor was. Zimmerman’s expunged charges were also from over 5 years back if I remember correctly.

    Mr. Scott could have simply retreated into his home if he was in fear for his safety; Zimmerman didn’t have that option pinned under Mr. Martin.

    I agree with you, it should be over and done with, but it’s not for some reason.

  • Joshua50

    If you had bothered to watch the trial and listen to the testimony of the dispatcher, he did not command Zimmerman to stay in the car. A dispatcher has no authority to do so in his own words. He told Zimmerman they didn’t need him to follow him, and Zimmerman replied “OK”. Big Difference..

    As for stand your ground, New York’ law regarding self defense only permits you to defend your home, not the outside of it. You also must retreat if it’s possible to do so.

  • Controversial – Don’t Argue!

    Wow, guys, seriously, CHILL OUT. Stop attacking each other’s opinions and look at the facts! Research, don’t take the filth that the mainstream media feeds you!

  • Joshua50

    Where’s your evidence and witness testimony to support stalking charges or that Zimmerman confronted Martin.. Supposition is fine, but it’s not factual evidence.

  • Ron McArdle

    Martin had 4 minutes to travel 100 yards to his fathers girlfriends house, but he chose to ambush Zimmerman instead.

  • Todd Hill

    Yup, for like 5 hours, and was under investigation for manslaughter for the two weeks following that night. He also was with investigators the next day re-enacting his version of events for them. The DA let him go because there was not enough evidence to file charges at that time.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57405476/what-happened-right-after-trayvon-martins-shooting/

  • Ron McArdle

    Assault and battery is a crime the last time I checked!

  • voicereason

    Although it is true that Trayvon was heading down a troubling path, and in fact was ‘no angel’. This video claims that he was under the influence of ‘lean’ although the autopsy did not show that, that is not to say he hadn’t used it in the past. He also paints a very pretty picture of Zimmerman, failing to mention that Zimmerman also has a criminal record and there is evidence to show that he had a violent past as well. Nobody knows for sure what happened that night, except two people, one of which is dead. GZ’s version of events is obviously going to be biased in his favor as I’m sure Trayvon’s would have been. Let’s not forget though, that Trayvon is not here to defend himself and he was not the one on trial.

  • voicereason

    What is your evidence that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, besides Zimmerman’s completely unbiased version of events. Remember nobody witnessed how the altercation began.

  • Joshua50

    My evidence is Ms. Jeantel’s testimony (Trayvon confronted Zimmerman), John Goodman’s testimony (saw the beating take place), Jenna Lauer’s testimony (heard the confrontation), George Zimmerman’s injuries and Trayvon’s absence of injuries, and most relevantly the jury’s decision (Not Guilty).

    You don’t have to like the verdict, but you have to honor it. Neither of us were there, so we must rely on the direct evidence, which supports Zimmerman’s account of events.

  • Joshua50

    I’m done debating this matter. People are entitled to whatever opinion they chose, wrong or right.

  • dragonfly81

    Martin committed felony assault when he placed his hands on Zimmerman with the intent to harm him. The “black kid” did do something wrong.

  • dragonfly81

    Martin was committing felony assault when he was shot, remember? You people leave out all the important details for your own cause.

  • Bob Martinelli

    Things dumb white people say, when they have no idea what really goes on in America, but want to feel better about their bigotry.

  • voicereason

    When did Ms. Jeantel testify that Trayvon threw the first punch? I watched the trial and have read the transcript, but I cannot find it. John Goodman, although he saw some of the altercation, he did not witness who INITIATED the altercation. He also testified that he was not 100% certain who was yelling. Jenna Lauer did not witness it either. As a matter of fact, she heard the voices, but could not make out the exact words which were being exchanged. In addition, she could not identify whose voices she heard.
    You took the liberty of assuming that I did not like the verdict, you have no idea how I feel about the verdict. My point in commenting here is that most people (on both sides) are responding with strong bias, and skewing the facts to match their own predisposed opinions.

  • Rose

    Actually, Scott approached the NEIGHBOR’S car… read more thoroughly next time. and no, not confirmed by witness that the gun owner was approached in a threatening manner. THE witness was Cervini’s Cousin:

    “What Happened? Accounts Differ

    According to 15-year-old James Cervini, one of the three, and Christopher’s cousin, Scott shot Christopher after the teen yelled, “Please don’t shoot me, I’m just a kid.” Scott, who testified in his own defense, said he only fired after Christopher came running at him in a threatening manner.

    Scott’s attorney, James Parrinello, argued it was likely Christopher went at Scott to give James a chance to get away. James was already bound by two probation orders and the consequences of being charged with breaking into cars would have been more serious for him.”

    Most people don’t fully read something, they skim through it and come to their own conclusions about what was stated. It’s ok, I’ve been guilty of it before too. Somebody pointed it out and I got better at actually reading things. lol.

    The cousin stated that Christopher was not lunging at him, but simply did ask to not be shot. The attorney argued it was LIKELY that Christopher lunged at Scott… just like Zimmerman’s attorney argued that Zimmerman had been attacked. Please, keep in mind in all this race crap, that Zimmerman had defensive bruising and marks, including on the back of his head from Martin trying to slam his head into the ground over and over. Martin only had aggressor’s marks (on his hand from striking Zimmerman). He was less than 100 yards from his father’s home… if he was scared he could have called the police just like Zimmerman had already. Or, called his father, hello, he was “just out for a stroll through the neighborhood”, at 3 am… But we can’t speculate on what could have been’s.

    People have forgotten, in all of it, that both men were trying to safeguard their neighborhood, whether they were making the right choices to go ahead and follow or confront somebody, they both had reason to be at least somewhat aggressive (at least by voice). Whether it was a guy “in a hoodie and dark clothing”, walking the neighborhood, at 3 am, in the rain, or the kids who were breaking into another person’s car. Maybe the thought of impending death, without reprocussions on the other party, will scare people into doing the right thing, such as NOT breaking into another person’s car, or NOT walking through an unknown neighborhood late at night, in dark clothing, in the rain. Or, if they are being followed, call the police instead of attacking a person that they have no clue is armed. Possibly, but just being polite and asking Zimmerman why he was following him could have cleared everything up.

    To bring in a personal story, I had a WHITE MAN, break into my home (I am white, FYI), and steal all my electronics and DVD’s. 3 people were aware something was going on. 1 stated they weren’t sure what the noise was when somebody broke my door down, but they surely were not going to look to see if it was because of being in fear of their life if something was happening. 2 saw the person and didn’t report it to the police. 1 of those stated that, because he was white, they ASSUMED (Keep in mind the person talking was a black man) he was helping me move stuff out of my place, although my door was broken in and the person was quickly moving only electronics out of my home, without having seen me present at all. Seriously, race is an issue in this country, on both accounts. And the last was an illegal who was afraid to go to the police station to I.D. him… Nobody, what-so-ever, even called the police until the next day, and it was a maintenance person passing by the apartment, noticing that the door had been sitting open all day, to look a little further and see that it was broken into and call the police. I only wish there had been somebody close who was aggressive enough to at least call the police when they saw or heard something, and find it as “suspicious behavior”.

    Nobody knows exactly what happened in each case, we can only see what is being stated. Unfortunately, Zimmerman’s account is the only one we will ever get. In the Scott case, there was witness who stated that Christopher was only asking him to not shoot… Who do we beleive? We will never truly know. The most we will truly know is the EVIDENCE. Making up stories of accounts that you feel “could have happened” without seeing the EVIDENCE, or without knowing exactly what happened, is the true problem with both cases.

    This stuff has gotten way too much attention, including my own. I hope people, myself included, can just give it a rest. Both kids have the right, at this point, to rest in peace.

    God is dealing with and will deal with whatever the truth is himself.

  • Bob Martinelli

    Yeah pursuing someone walking home and when that person “stands his ground” he tried to retreat, real justification there. Try logic, it makes life easier.

  • Justaguy

    Another difference: unlike the Zimmerman-Martin case, The Scott-Cervini case actually contained a white person. George Zimmerman had one white parent. If he is white, so is Barack Obama.

  • Charles Martel

    Want to see real racism is action. Google SBPDL and become enlightened.

  • Charles Martel

    This is not true. The liver results did in fact show liver damage consist with the use of lean.

  • Joshua50

    My reply is in moderation, so you’ll have to wait.

  • Charles Martel

    Last time I checked there is no law against following someone. There is not even a law against cussing some or using other harsh language. Only good outcome of this whole situation is one dead thug society will not have to deal with and countless prodigy he would have left fatherless.

  • Charles Martel

    The cops and the jury agreed with Zimmerman so hell gives a damn.

  • Charles Martel

    Again you show your ignorance or arrogance. There is no law stating you can’t follow someone unless you have some kind of restraining order. But I wouldn’t expect someone such as you to understand. This would require higher reasoning skills something lacking in your people as evidenced in the horror they leave in their wake.

    Read SBPDL and many you can come out of the dark ages, pun intended.

  • Charles Martel

    You didn’t pay attention did you little dweeb. The people were breaking into his neighbor’s car.

  • Al Capone

    I googled that and I didn’t see any apparent racism.

  • Derp

    Please do show us proof of this. I’m certain you have it, right?

  • Derp

    Zimmerman committed the act of stalking…any adult over the age of 18 cannot follow someone under the age of 18. Might want to check that law. Zimmerman was also armed and ignored direct police order to not get involved.

  • ForPeteSaiche

    I don’t remember a media uproar, nationwide protests, or ‘Italian American’ calls to retribution violence.

  • dragonfly81

    There are serveral inaccuracies in your statement that are not worth bickering over. However, I wanted to point out that I never said that Zimmerman didn’t do anything wrong. I merely reminded Morty that Martin was in fact doing something wrong when he was killed. I am sick of people acting like Zimmerman waltzed up to Martin and shot him in the back.

  • doesntevenmatter

    If you REALLY want to see real disgusting, throw your computer at the wall racism Google national black footsoldier network at blog spot.-Remove spaces.

  • gwumpycat

    Following someone in public is not a crime. Especially for a neighborhood watch captain who sees someone he doesn’t recognize slowly cruising a neighborhood in the pouring rain.

  • Axel Blaster

    I think OP is aware of that, but the cases are dissimilar in that Zimmerman could have been profiling and Scott actually witnessed a crime taking place. However, the moment that they shot “in self-defense” are the key factor. To get acquitted by using the self-defense doctrine, one has to convince the jury that one fears for their live, but not that those fears were reasonable. That’s to protect otherwise innocent people from serving time if they had fear their live was in danger. For example, shooting a roommate that was entering in the window because you feared it could be a serial killer.
    People that are upset with the verdict are upset for the wrong reasons. There is nothing wrong with the criminal verdict. However, this could be a wrongful death and the civil verdict will be a harder case to win for George Zimmerman.

  • Axel Blaster

    in all fairness the dispatcher didn’t command him, more like: “you don’t have to do that” in a conversational voice, more like don’t bother.

  • Axel Blaster

    some will not like this post nor your opinion, but at least they can’t say you didn’t do good research.

  • mokicat2

    It’s a valid comparison. Just because a teen is breaking into a car doesn’t give a man a right to shoot him. The only self defense argument can come if the teen attacked him, not just because he is breaking into a car – which, by the way, wasn’t even his car. Also, like George Zimmerman, he could have stayed inside and waited for the police to arrive. He didn’t have to go out and confront the youths, he chose to, and like in the zimmerman case, it lead to a deadly confrontation. This case is an almost exact parallel.

  • supafli420

    If he had stayed in the car like the police said, that 17 year old boy with be with his family today. Why should Trayvon pay the ultimate price for this wannabe hero? If you want to prevent crime, install some cameras and get some proof, don’t tail innocent kids with a firearm. Goerge Zimmerman is a F#@king loser…

  • George Mason

    No, TM died not because he was walking home, he he died because he was committing assault and battery.

    People dress up to go to a job interviews, why? Because people make assumptions about people based on what they wear, grow up. If you don’t want to be treated like a criminal don’t dress like one.

  • Duder

    The difference is that Christopher Cervini was actually committing a crime (breaking into a car), whereas Trayvon Martin was not doing any crime. That is why it’s difference. Now had Trayvon been in the process of actually doing something wrong, that would be a different story.

  • Duder

    The difference is that in the Roderick Scott case, the teens were actually committing a crime (breaking into a car), whereas Trayvon was simply walking around committing no crime. That’s the difference.

  • LRob

    Duder, I believe you are correct that Trayvon was simply walking around, and I’ve never heard that at that point he was committing a crime. All true. Where it got messy was when Trayvon broke Zimmerman’s nose, and then proceeded to pummel him while on top of him, and even banging the back of his head into the ground. Mistakes on both sides, Zimmerman should have properly identified himself, and so should have Trayvon. This whole incident didn’t need to happen. But the threat to Zimmerman’s life is what precipitated the shooting, at that point Trayvon WAS committing a crime, plain and simple.

  • Raiann

    Where is ALL the blood from this horrible head bashing ?? A couple of scratches that required 2 band aides. What a pu##y. Take the beating you asked for. Trayvon decided to stand his ground against a stalker. Then was murdered. That is not a bit but the entire truth.

  • Dante Laboy

    You’re a pretty sorry person. Telling a boldfaced lie in order to smear a murder victim.

  • Patrick Obrien

    staulking means following more than one time

  • Dante Laboy

    so if your wife or child called you, petrified, because some strange man was following them at night, you would tell them to not worry about it, and assume the strange man means them no harm? Following someone is an implied threat, and can most certainly result in an arrest. You’re playing dumb.

  • Patrick Obrien

    ZIMMERMAN WAS NEVER ORDERED TOO STAY IN HIS TRUCK
    a 911 dispatcher can not give any kind of orders they are their too get in formation and make suggestions

  • Dante Laboy

    these are lies.

  • Dante Laboy

    no it doesnt. You’re a liar.

  • Joshua50

    You really need to do some research before posting.. Somehow you’ve manage to get every conceivable fact regarding both cases wrong!

  • Joshua50

    I’m sure that reply took a great deal of effort on your behalf.. Bereft of any factual information, followed by an Ad hominem attack. Bravo!

  • Joshua50

    You mean aside from being high and trying to beat someone to death? LOL

  • Joshua50

    I assume your a big believer in the Tawana Brawley hoax as well going by your screen name.

  • Joshua50

    Watch the video.. every time I post a link it gets sent to moderation.

  • Joshua50

    I’d tell them to call 911 not try to ambush them.. Sound logical to you?

  • Joshua50

    Watch the video, it has the report in it. Sheesh!

  • Dante Laboy

    I dont need to watch some ridiculous video of half truths, and outright fabrications. I linked you to the medical examiner’s report. You’re lying. Period.

  • Dante Laboy

    someone is a thug for defending themselves against an armed stalker?

  • Joshua50

    I wouldn’t want to confound you with the facts, so please don’t watch it. The truth is a hard thing to handle when you have a closed mind.

  • Dante Laboy

    lol….whatever, liar.

  • Joshua50

    George Zimmerman helps save four people from a burning SUV! This guy never stops trying to make the World a better place.. Check Drudge or even Google news if you doubt me.

  • Dyrewulf

    Quite obviously, you couldn’t care less about the facts of either case. You’ll defend a black person for anything they do. Personally, I think Roderick Scott was justified in his incident and I think GZ was justified in his incident. I look at fact, not race. Until black Americans stand for the truth and not for the race, they will always be in the condition they have stayed in for all these years.

  • Dyrewulf

    TM was almost to his father’s house and had to turn around and go back to confront GZ. This was Rachel Jeantel’s testimony. He willfully sought a confrontation with GZ. GZ was within his rights as a human being to protect himself, just as RS was.

  • Flybob

    WOW! Now THERE’S a new concept! I have been enlightened! I wasn’t aware until now there are degrees of having one’s head beat into the ground! So on level 1 you have minor scratched and can respond by stepping on their toes! Degree 2 you have visible blood and can respond by tickling them! Degree 3 you have broken bones and you can respond by pulling their ears! Degree 4 you have YOUR BRAINS HANGING OUT AND IF YOU HAVE ANY LIFE LEFT IN YOU IT’S PERMISSIBLE TO ACTUALLY SHOOT THE PERSON THAT’S BEATING YOU EFIN HEAD IN THE SIDEWALK!!! Clear to see why you have the avatar you have obamamite. In the mean time, I got your pu$$y and you can come and get it. Someon’s slammin MY head into the pavement I don’t wait for “levels” to defend myself. As unfortunate as it was that someone lost his life, the kid WASN’T murdered, he was killed by a man that was IN FEAR FOR HIS LIFE!!! AND he had EVERY right to do as necessary to stay alive. YOU’RE A MORON! Oh yeah, but that all changes when YOU yell race. Unbelieveable. And for the record BIGOTRY IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW! It’s a free country!

  • Dyrewulf

    ALL of what you wrote is not true aside from GZ being armed. I seriously doubt TM would have attacked him if he knew that. You are simply defending TM because of his race. Until black Americans start holding ALL people accountable for their actions they will remain in the condition they are in.

  • Dyrewulf

    Rachel Jeantel’s testimony. Why won’t you look at facts?

  • Dyrewulf

    He was committing felonious assault when he was shot.

  • Dyrewulf

    He wasn’t told to stay in his car. This is in the testimony from the 911 dispatcher. So far, GZ is 2-0. That doesn’t constitute a loser. However, being so blinded by racial hatred that you’re willing to convict someone because of their incorrectly reported race does.

  • Dyrewulf

    Your “facts” are wrong in that the dispatcher didn’t tell GZ not to follow TM and had no authority to do so. READ the testimony before you assume. He told GZ “we don’t need you to do that.”

  • Dyrewulf

    That’s asinine. He was close enough to the house he was staying at to completely avoid the confrontation but he chose to engage. This is the testimony from Rachel Jeantel.

  • http://www.politicalseason.blogspot.com PoliticalSeason

    Again, if you buy Zimmerman’s version of events, sure.

  • AllSeasonRadial

    Yeah… OR he was defending himself against felonious assault.

  • http://www.politicalseason.blogspot.com PoliticalSeason

    the 911 tape shows he followed Martin and Zimmerman says so himself that he was following him. Follow, stalk, call it what you want, he followed the boy without any reason based on his behavior. He was black, so he viewed him as suspicious. He certainly wasn’t following him just because he was walking. This is the same guy who went on Hannity’s show and described Trayvon as “skipping” away at one point. Sorry, I don’t buy his version of events. If his story had been I approached him, said something, it escalated, that would be one thing, but this story that Trayvon just went from walking down the street and indicating to Rachel he was going home, to all of a sudden going MMA on Zimmerman from ambush. Nope, I don’t buy that version. Hey case is over, he’s acquitted. You buy his story, I don’t.

  • http://www.politicalseason.blogspot.com PoliticalSeason

    You are a real cliche, I mean you just throw the bigoted language out there and probably actually think there is something superior about your opinion after demonstrating a complete lack of skill at dialogue with someone who disagrees with you. I suppose being one of “you people” It burns you even more that I dare to disagree with you. Your racial aspersions mark you as bigoted. Having put your racial bias so clearly on display, you have provided ample reason to disregard anything you say.

  • Jimothy Jones

    I would say the “Black Joe Horn” is probably a little more accurate. Keep in mind Roderick Scott shot someone in the middle of committing a felony. Last I checked, purchasing skittles and walking home was not a felony.

  • Jimothy Jones

    Ummmm, if you are the aggressor of the situation, it kinda changes the whole scenario.

  • Dante Laboy

    why would you lead an armed stalker back to your residence? TM had every right to stand his ground.

  • EpeeBob

    Question … how much longer longer would Zimmerman have to allow himself to be beaten before it could be considered self defense. How long would you have waited, especially if you were jumped for doing nothing illegal and for the good of your community.

  • EpeeBob

    If Martin was definding himself, where were his wounds, prior to the gunshot?

  • EpeeBob

    Where were any marks on Martin, other than the gunshot. No, this shooting was a response to Martin beating Zimmerman. Also, if Martin was so afraid of Zimmerman, why didn’t he simply walk home instead of confronting Zimmerman?

  • EpeeBob

    Bob, assuming you a “smart white person, how long would you have left Trayvon beat you before you shot him?

  • mulp

    A black man immediately arrested and charged with murder.

    A white man freed immediately by the police and not even seriously investigated by the prosecutor and only charged weeks later after a new prosecutor was brought in after answered were demanded by family and the community.

    Yep, obviously no indications of racial bias.

  • Raiann

    He was suppose to have had the beating so bad that he felt his life was in danger. That is the point DANGER from what scratches ??? Brains hanging out ? really OK where was the brain matter along with the blood ??? This is really simple even for all of the morons out there. GZ profiled, stalked ( which by the way IS against the law) and when TM decided to STANND HIS GROUND against the stalker, the pu%%y pulled out his gun and murdered an unarmed kid. IT is that simple. GZ is a murderer who was able to use the system and get away with it. FL will not be that lucky hopefully. With all of the protest we can hit them in their pockets and kill them legally. You said one thing I found interesting, kid was not murdered by a man. You have the answer right there MAN v kid and kid lost because man was larger and had a weapon. Again simple even for morons. Iam not yelling race, Iam smacking you and the rest in your face with your small pri$$ and saying you are an idiot and if you think you can handle my pu%%y, then keep it as it probably will be the only time you see one. As real woman do not like a%% holes. My avatar is just to show support for one of the best Presidents we have had in many years. No bigotry is not against the law but it does show how small of a person you and others are.

  • Raiann

    Why did not GZ stay in his car. That would have stopped this whole thing. All he had to do was listen to the 911 operator who told him they did NOT need him. But NO big bag georgie knew better then trained professionals. So he continued to STALK TM and Trayvon decided to STAND HIS GROUND and Georgie started to lose the fight and that pi%%ed him off so he pulled out his gun and murdered this kid. There were no marks except the bullet hole tells more then I can ever say. So no marks what happened to this big fight that GZ was scared for his life. HMMM Not so much HUH !!!

  • Raiann

    That shows where bigotry is. Until Obama huh ??? Until that black man had the nerve to go into your white house huh ??? Better for whom ??? This shows you have no clue or are just playing dumb

  • The Rev

    You are a complete moron if you think that brains need to be hanging out of someone’s head before trauma to the skull can cause death. People die from falling and hitting their head all the damn time.

  • The Rev

    Oh, put it back in the deck already.

  • Dyrewulf

    Where do you get he was a stalker? I think you don’t understand what a stalker is.

  • Dyrewulf

    Sorry mulp, GZ is Hispanic. No matter how hard you try to convince yourself, you can’t argue the facts.

  • Michael Capanelli

    Seriously, stop justifying crime. Your attitude is why the inner cities keep getting worse. Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, that much is clear. He was not being stalked, he was being followed as a person of interest by a community watch member in a neighborhood that had just endured recent robberies. So basically, your lying by omission.

  • Dyrewulf

    No, it’s not but felonious assault is.

  • Joshua50

    Scott shot a 16 year old boy who was begging for his life. Trayvon Martin was shot after trying to beat another man to death. Big difference. Scott also wasn’t acting in self defense according to New York law. He chose to go outside armed and confront the 3 boys rather than retreat to his home. He was playing wannabe cop in my opinion.

  • Bill Gryan

    Correction: A man with no injuries immediately arrested and charged with murder. A Hispanic man with multiple injuries to his head, temporarily released but then run through the ringer by a press and president eager for a race war. A race war fueled by washed-up hippies like yourself. Take a puff from your bong, and go back to sleep.

  • Bill Gryan

    So we can shoot car thieves now?

    Last time I checked, assault and battery was a felony. Zimmerman shot someone who was assaulting him. Scott shot someone who allegedly ran at him but made no contact with him.

  • jack johnson

    Both Scott and Zimmerman should have gotten off and I am glad both of them did. Certainly wouldn’t mind both of them living in my neighborhood.

    The outrage shouldn’t be at what these men did but rather the public outcry from people like Sharpton, Obama, Holder, etc. and the medias portrayal of the Martin case. Because someone non-black killed a black, this case went absolutely viral and the depiction of Trayvon and the events from that night were deceptive and misleading from the first instance. Just look at the Sanford Police Department’s stories about how they had a case forced upon them. And making Trayvon a martyr and his image amongst blacks was grossly misrepresented.

    Although Martin wasn’t doing anything illegal when he was followed, judging from his social media accounts, I think Martin and Cervini would have been great friends.

  • jack johnson

    He was winning the fight, he was beating the cr@p out of Zimmerman which is why Zimmerman shot him

  • Bill Gryan

    Barely literate.
    Factually inaccurate.

  • jack johnson

    His mom already kicked him out and his dad clearly had no interest in where his son was for over a day. Clearly “he would be with his family” is a gross misrepresentation of who Trayvon Martin was.

  • jack johnson

    I don’t think you understand the concept of murder.

  • jack johnson

    If Zimmerman wanted to kill Martin why did he only shoot once? If you’re shooting to kill shouldn’t you at least unload the clip? Wheres ya street smarts homie?

  • Bill Gryan

    Maybe you missed part of the story. Too many video games, dude?

    Trayvon Martin was not “walking down the street” when he was shot, rather, he was sitting on Zimmerman’s chest, beating him to death. Believe it or not, that’s actually a more serious crime than auto theft.

  • jack johnson

    As a smart liberal white person, I would have understood he was an underprivileged youth who was on his way to becoming a successful artist, so in the case that he was just beating me to death I would have just allowed him to.

  • Bill Gryan

    Agreed, just as long as both Zimmerman and Scott are not subjected to another trial to satisfy some feckless politician’s election dreams.

  • jack johnson

    Scott is a hero to me. A bunch of drunk underaged white kids high on meth-drugs jacking into cars to steel stuff doesn’t exactly seem like honor student behavior to me. Cervini and Martin would have made awesome friends, stealing stuff, doing graffiti, and getting high on lean.

  • jack johnson

    I bet if Martin came around with a bunch of lean Cervini would have been right on that. Sorry but good kids don’t go around robbing peoples trucks in the middle of night.

  • Bill Gryan

    Wish I could find a dispatcher to command you to tar and feather yourself, and then send me your welfare check. You have to do whatever they tell you, after all.

  • jack johnson

    You don’t understand the situation even though the article EXPLICITLY stated it.

    It was the jury’s job to prove that Zimmerman acted out of fear of his own life and self-defense. Which was again evidence supported he did, which was why he was let off. Regardless of whether he profiled Martin or not, that wasn’t what the trial was about. It was about whether or not he was fearing for his life. OF COURSE he profiled Martin. Black males walking around white neighborhoods at night in hoodies would be considered suspicious anywhere and if you are lying to yourself if you think otherwise. That is the reality of American life.

  • Bill Gryan

    But but, auto theft is a CRIME and assault and battery is something we can just ignore!

  • John

    Yea tip toeing through the Tulip Garden RIGHT? Zimmermann shot the thug then hit his head against a tree, then slamed his head on conrete rolled in the Grass on his back. Made sure grass stains were on Martins knees, yea Zimmermann planed all of this RIGHT?
    Problem the entry wound concidess with forensics says Martimwas on top of Z mann for awhile until Z got real afraid and shot the PUNK> But only once…

  • Koob

    yeah, we don’t know for sure. so what do we do–send Zimmerman to prison? not under the American system.

  • Koob

    Duder, both guys seem to have shot in self-defense. Thank God for good, honest juries.

  • Raiann

    Community Watch member by whose standards ?? According to the National Neighborhood watch association GZ is NOT a member. So I guess that is just another lie, 1/2 truth by GZ. Trayvon was STANDING his ground that all of you have given freely to a stalker, but Trayvon apparently can not do. When TM got the better of GZ in a fight That GZ started that is when BIG boy pulled out his gun.

  • Rational_Db8

    In addition to the info Todd Hill already posted, I’ll add that either that same night or the next day, Zimmerman took polygraph that he volunteered for, and passed with flying colors. Later the police tried to trip him up to see if he was lying, by lying to him, claiming they had discovered video of the altercation. His immediate response was to exclaim with great relief something along the lines of “Thank God!! I hope they got it ALL!! Hardly what you’d expect from someone who was lying about any of the altercation or about who started it.

  • Rational_Db8

    Excuse me, but people DIE all the time from a simple fall where they hit their head on the concrete. Sometimes they die from a single punch to the head. You cannot tell when a head injury will trigger off a brain bleed.

    YOU try getting your nose broken as you’re knocked to the ground, and have someone bashing your head into the concrete repeatedly, and then tell us that you wouldn’t be just a mite concerned that maybe the next bash will be hard enough to crack your skull or cause permanent brain damage. I’m sure you’d be just calmly measuring the actual force of each blow and how likely it may or may not be to cause permanent damage. Yeah, I’m sure you’d pull out your force meter to actually measure each blow, along with consulting your medical manual for just how much force is needed before permanent damage is done, and you’d also of course consult your brain scan with contrast of all your blood vessels to be sure there wasn’t anything in there likely to pop a bit more easily than average…. riiiiighhht.

    Or how about if it were your CHILD getting his head bashed repeatedly into the concrete. You telling us, honestly, that you would want your child to wait before pulling the gun and shooting, until perhaps the next blow was enough to actually kill or permanently damage him/her?

    Get real.

    And claiming Zimmerman was larger?? What a joke!! Zimmerman was a 5’7″ soft non-athletic pudge. Trayvon was a top athlete, 5’11″ according to the coroner’s report and 6’2″ according to his official ID, weighed 158 lbs. He’d played competitive football for at least 5 years and was their top player. By his own word he was a brawler who liked to fight and sometimes started fights unprovoked. So Trayvon had between 4 inches to 7 inches in height and reach on George, and was far fitter and far more athletic. And you wanna claim George was bigger and Trayvon just a kid? Please. If Trayvon had killed George, he would have been tried as an adult.

    Obama, the best president we’ve had in years according to you? What planet do you live on???!! I’m sorry, but you’ve fallen thru the looking glass and you’re talking to us from wonderland. Please wake up and join the real world.

  • Rational_Db8

    GZ was asked by his Home Owners Association to start a Neighborhood Watch. The local Police Neighborhood Watch appointed him the NW Coordinator. That’s by who’s standards – the POLICE’s standards, and the HOA’s standards. You’re the one lying about it.

  • jamesmmm

    Hahahahahahahahah!

  • Rational_Db8

    Man, you haven’t bothered to look into any of the facts of this case. IN fact, the dispatcher asked GZ where TM was going, and GZ took that to mean he wanted GZ to keep an eye on TM so he was able to point him out to the police when they got there. In fact, he was already OUT of the car when the dispatcher asked “are you following him” and GZ answered “yes.” Dispatcher then said “ok, we don’t need you to do that.” GZ promptly replied “Ok” and stopped following TM, then reported having lost sight of TM completely. GZ in fact had an almost certainly broken nose, two black eyes, and clear evidence of at least 5 other major blows to his head, 4 against concrete, including two lacerations that bled profusely as did his nose. TM had NO injuries other than an abraision on one knuckle consistent with having hit someone hard, and of course the bullet wound. Forensics proved beyond any doubt that when shot, he was on top of GZ and leaning over him. GZ was seen by an eyewitness, pinned to the ground screaming in terror at the top of his lungs for help for nearly a minute as his head was being repeatedly bashed into the concrete before pulling the gun and shooting. The witness further said that TM was not only on top during all of this, but was bashing GZ Mixed Martial Arts “ground and pound” style. So yeah, quite clearly GZ had LOTS of reason to seriously fear for his life – and TM had none. At that point, TM was in fact committing a very serious felony, called aggravated battery, which people die from all the time.

  • supafli420

    “Other pieces of testimony may also have reflected poorly on Mr. Zimmerman. Officer Serino, who took the stand again on Tuesday, said the expletives that Mr. Zimmerman used as he was pursuing Mr. Martin connoted ill will—a necessary component in a second-degree murder conviction.
    The police officers were also clearly disturbed that Mr. Zimmerman, a community watch volunteer, got out of his car to pursue Mr. Martin on foot, especially after a police operator had told him not to do so.”

    This only becomes about race when Zimmerman, looking for criminals decides to follow the only person that he believes is a potential threat – an unarmed 17 year old black boy with candy in his pockets. He had no proof at all, yet decided to pursue.

  • supafli420

    Does that mean that he deserved to die? He was minding his own business. If he had not met GZ, he would still be alive.

  • supafli420

    “It’s a free country” Unless you walk around in the wrong gated community! Then you had better be prepared for a man with a gun to “defend himself”

  • Rational_Db8

    What an absolutely fabulous Afterburner video by Bill Whittle. He does some great stuff, and this one certainly sums up the pertinent issues and details of the whole Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman situation.

    Thank you so much for posting it!

  • Rational_Db8

    Zimmerman does not have a criminal record. Trumped up and overblown charges from one incident were dropped, and that’s the only arrest he ever had. There were no convictions. He passed the background checks required not only for legal possession of the gun, but the more in depth ones for the concealed carry permit – neither of which he could have gotten if he had a criminal record as you claim. Nor is there any evidence of violence on his part – and there is a lot of evidence to the contrary.

  • Rational_Db8

    The medical examiner’s report says EXACTLY what the video claims it says – there was evidence of liver changes that do not occur in healthy young men, and is consistent with the heavy/frequent use of “lean”/”purple drank.” I think you know this full well, and it’s been told to you before – but you could care less what the actual facts are, you just want Trayvon to be innocent and George guilty. But you’d change your tune in a heartbeat if all the evidence were identical, and George happened to be black but Trayvon white, wouldn’t you?

  • Rational_Db8

    Sorry, but marijuana is well known by experts to cause some people to act aggressively. Also, as others have noted, the autopsy did not show normal results on Trayvon. You are right that the tox report didn’t show DXM in his system at the time, but apparently in heavy users, e.g., ones that would be likely to show liver changes such as Trayvon’s, it can cause aggression and paranoia for several days after it is out of the system.

    Did it actually affect him that way, that night? Who knows. Maybe, maybe not. Which is exactly what the video says – it’s speculation.

  • Rational_Db8

    What an utter load of BALONEY. Try checking the law yourself, and while you’re at it, before opening your mouth about a case, try learning at least the basic facts involved. The police NEVER ordered Zimmerman not to get involved, quite the contrary in fact. They put him in charge of the neighborhood watch, they told him to call in any suspicious people, they asked him that night where Trayon had gone, etc., etc.

  • Rational_Db8

    It wasn’t a white neighborhood. It in fact is a very mixed race neighborhood, with a higher percentage of blacks than the percentage in the USA. Zimmerman is himself in fact part black, having a loved grandmother who lived in their home from 1978 on and helped raise him. That said, there were a number of different eye witness reports of burglars and home invasions where the fleeing offenders were all young black men in that neighborhood – and some of the witnesses to that were themselves black. So yes, young black men acting suspiciously as Trayvon was would probably be quickly noted – but not because of any racial animus or racism, but because the people who had been causing the epidemic of burglaries and home invasions in that neighborhood were in fact young black men.

  • Rational_Db8

    Zimmerman’s calls actually resulted in one burglar being caught, arrested, and convicted. Other neighbors are on record saying that they also called 911 at least once a week – that neighborhood had gone from a quite relatively crime free neighborhood to a very high crime one in only a few short years. Even the police stated that the neighborhood had a very high crime rate. They TOLD Zimmerman and the others to call for ANYONE who seemed at all suspicious, to not wait. They were doing as they were told to, by the police, and Trayvon’s behavior very much fit what the police had told them might be quite reasonably considered to be suspicious.

  • Rational_Db8

    Zimmerman volunteered to take a polygraph either that night or the next day, and passed it with flying colors. When the cops tried to trip him up if he was lying, by lying to him claiming they had discovered video of the altercation, Zimmerman immediately exclaimed with great relief something like “Thank God!!! I hope they got it ALL!!

    The prosecution also withheld (illegally), about half the evidence from Trayvon’s phone. Oh so coincidentally, what they did turn over had GPS records of Trayvon’s movements to within 10 feet for all BUT the day of the incident. Trayvon had over 4 minutes to cover about 70 yards – less than the length of a football field, to get to his house. A distance he could easily have covered in a few seconds. George was on the far side, not between him and the house, and yet a full four minutes later is when the altercation took place. Before the altercation, Trayvon told his girl friend on the phone that he was AT his Dad’s house. That he was going to “fix” the “creepy @ss cracka” who’d been following him. She testified that Trayvon confronted George, saying “why you following me for?” She later said on TV she believes that Trayvon threw the first punch. That he was just whoooop-@@@@@ssss!!! on George.

    In other words, the preponderance of evidence clearly supports Zimmerman’s account, and doesn’t support your suppositions well at all.

  • Rational_Db8

    Who knows if he was actually minding his own business, or if he was actually looking at houses with the idea of burglarizing them. You sure don’t, nor do I. So it’s silly to make such statements. We can all play the what if game too. What if Trayvon hadn’t defaced school property, gotten caught with burglary tools and stolen jewelry, along with a baggie with marijuana residue and drug paraphernalia, then he wouldn’t have been suspended and wouldn’t have ever met George. See how that works?

  • Rational_Db8

    Officer Serino in fact testified that he completely believed Zimmerman’s account of what happened and didn’t think he was guilty. He said that unequivocally.

    The bit about telling him not to get out of his car is a lie. A blatant lie that was clearly disproved by the evidence presented in the trial along with testimony under oath of the dispatcher himself.

  • Dante Laboy

    stalking is an active verb, and by definition GZ was most certainly stalking TM. How could you claim otherwise?

  • Dante Laboy

    lol, you idiots are deranged.

  • Pesky Vrmt

    I wouldn’t have PUT myself in danger like Zimmerman did. There was absolutely NO reason for him to follow Trayvon. Trayvon was NOT breaking the law. He was walking home. The licks Zimmerman took were because HE walked into Trayvons “back yard” (he had permission to be there) and killed him. The fact that Trayvons body was found a good 45 feet from where Zimmerman said he attacked him tells me that it was ZIMMERMAN who was the attacker.

    The POLICE set the pace on the race issue. Had they taken the time to do their job, they would not have labeled Trayvon an intruder. They saw a young black male laying there and decided that he was the criminal. They did not process the scene properly. They did not process Zimmermans vehicle and GPS data, and lost key evidence.

  • bobrien2

    Um, breaking into an unoccupied car does not justify deadly force under any circumstance. The difference you identified isn’t legally relevant to a self defense claim any more than the fact that Trayvon was likely high on marijuana.

  • Duder

    There is no evidence at all that this boy was high. And as far as trying to beat someone to death, Zimmerman followed him WHILE HE WAS SIMPLY WALKING. Scott actually caught this guy in the act of a crime, so unless walking is a crime, Trayvon was doing nothing wrong.

    The only “attack” came after some Zimmerman hunted him down (which by the way, Zimmerman has had a history of doing, in addition to assaulting a police officer and getting a domestic violence restraining order from his girlfriend).

  • Duder

    What crime was he committing for Zimmerman to be chasing him down?? Not a single crime.

    He was being threatened by some guy following him in a suspicious manner. It’s not unreasonable for Trayvon to have attacked when he didn’t know if this is some guy trying to rob him, or kidnap him, or who knows what.

  • Duder

    Zimmerman would not have even followed Trayvon if he didn’t have a gun to hide behind like a coward. Walking around is not a crime, so there was no reason to follow Trayvon. What about all the other people walking around?

    For all Trayvon would know, Zimmerman may have been someone trying to rob, kidnap, or do other harm to him as there was no identification. So he did nothing wrong by trying to protect himself from this crazy guy following him.

    And as far as a thug, let’s not forget that Zimmerman is a proven thug, felony assault on a police officer (which was reduced because his father is a judge), domestic violence that his lady had to get a restraining order. Nah, Zimmerman was looking for trouble, and just coward out with a gun when it came back to him. There was no reason to be chasing that boy.

  • Debra Milton

    Very erie to say the least..

  • Flybob

    Let me see if I can get this right, gated community? Maybe the security is a little higher there? DUH? The one thing NO one has said is that martin COULD have asked Zimmerman for a little advice or an escort to his destination but he DID NOT! He made NO attempt to talk to Zimmerman at all and in fact he escalated the issue by starting a fight with him. martin could have EASILY avoided the problem by simply communicating with Zimmerman. You all act like Zimmerman got up that morning and said to himself “I’m gonna kill someone today…..and while I’m at it, it’s going to be a black kid”. He was in fear for his life and that’s the end of it….unless you’re black of course….then you get to claim race as the problem. GET OVER IT! He was acquitted by a jury of his peers and is innocent….but you just won’t let it alone. I say if you want trouble then you got it. I’m OVER the racial bullshit! Blacks have had SPECIAL rights for the last 60 years and STILL have been in financial decline. GET A DAMN JOB AND HELP SUPPORT YOUR COUNTRY INSTEAD OF EXPECTING SOMETHING YOU DON’T DESERVE! I respect ANY man that at least tries but the majority think they’re owed something. BULLSHIT!

  • Flybob

    Lady, I’ve stepped over better women than you just lookin for a place to jack off. Zimmerman WAS ACQUITED!!! GET THE F OVER IT!!!! Or you could just keep running your mouth and making things even worse. One more thing, martin was a BIG kid COMPLETELY capable of taking a life and he did NOTHING to talk to Zimmerman. He EASLY could have asked for an escort to the place he was going or talked to Zimmerman in ANY way and he CHOSE to escalate the problem. Like I said, it is tragic a life was lost but the jury got it right, even though there should have NEVER been charges against Zimmerman. If trayvon had been white there wouldn’t have been. You’re just too stupid to see the facts so I’m done wasting my breath on the likes of you. Easy to see brilliance isn’t in your blood lines.

  • jack johnson

    If young blacks males in similar clothing had not broken into homes in that neighborhood before he wouldn’t have been profiled to begin with.

  • jack johnson

    The 4 minutes of phone silence and the fact that Zimmerman said he “lost” Martin tells me that there is no guarantee that we can know who was the attacker. Please don’t jump to decisions when facts aren’t there.

    They also did not process Trayvon’s cell phone GPS. That night they took in Zimmerman and had questioned him and processed him and determined there was not enough evidence to warrant an arrest for anything.

  • voicereason

    Here are your words: “If Rachel Jeantel is to be believed, she stated in court that Trayvon confronted Zimmerman, not the other way around. Now she is saying she believe Trayvon threw the first punch.. Which version of her story is the truth, who knows.”

    This is what I was referring to when I asked where in her testimony she states that Trayvon threw the first punch. I disagree with you that GZ’s injuries prove who initiated the fight. His story has many inconsistencies. Not the least of which is that he claims that TM saw his concealed weapon, the one he clearly tells the officer is IN the back of his waist band. I fail to see how this could have occurred with TM straddling him.

    While it may be true that Trayvon was not perfect, and yes probably a teen punk with a chip on his shoulder; however, it is my opinion that he did not need to die that night. Regardless of who initiated, it is clear that at one point TM got the upper hand. GZ was a grown man, who could have and should have fought back with his hands, not with his gun. I believe GZ panicked and used excessive force in response. In addition, I believe that the Roderick Scott (based on the information given here) verdict was a travesty.

    All of this is irrelevant at this point. The prosecution did not fulfill the burden of proof. There was reasonable doubt, which was all the defense needed, hence the verdict.

  • jack johnson

    According to wiki (which is usually moderately reliable) Sanford is 16% black and the crime rate is above the national average. This gets applied anywhere, blacks even profile suspicious looking blacks in black neighborhoods. The national astonishment that Martin was considered suspicious shows a complete liberal blindness from the mass of protesters

  • voicereason

    As I clearly stated, I have watched/listened to her testimony. I have also read the transcript, however nowhere have I read/heard where she says Trayvon threw the first punch.

  • voicereason

    He was not in the act of committing a crime when GZ began following him.

  • Gammi2Anna

    Martin was committing a crime. He jumped the back wall into a gated community, which is illegal trespass. If he was a guest of someone who lived in the gated community he should have been given a guest pass card where he could enter through the front gate as required by all residents.

  • Dyrewulf

    What you just quoted is not the testimony. Wherever you got it from is lying. I heard the 911 call and you can listen to it, also. The 911 operator told GZ “We don’t need you to do that” and said on the stand that he had NO authority to tell him not to follow him. Your last statement is based on your racial bias. How exactly did GZ know that TM was unarmed? Did TM know that GZ was armed? People, you really need to look past your racial hatred.

  • Dyrewulf

    He was following TM because he thought he was acting suspiciously. That is not stalking. You imply that he was hunting TM, which he clearly wasn’t.

  • Dyrewulf

    Where do you folks get your “facts” from? Where is it said anywhere that GZ was “chasing him down”? If you have to lie to make your point, then your point isn’t really very good, is it?

  • coast

    If you have been a part of any neighborhood watch program, you should know very well that you are to watch and report. Safety is an issue and that’s the first thing that police offers will tell you (at least that’s what they did for our neighborhood watch program). It’s preferable to go out in two(s) and you watch and report, not follow or put yourself in harms way. The eyewitness did not know exactly who was screaming. I believe the eyewitness reported that there were two people fighting one was on top of the other, but that was about it.
    I believe that they were both to blame in this situation. Zimmerman clearly went beyond what he was supposed to do as a watchman and it resulted in the loss of life. I don’t think he intended to take a life, but he did much the same as a drunk driver might do when they are negligent.
    At the same time, I don’t think this was proven beyond a reasonable doubt in court and he is free as a result of that.
    We should let it go at that. The court system did its job whether we agree with it or not.

  • Angel Zubia

    THANK YOU!! He was never told to stay in his car, he was never asked to go back to his car. People so need to get their facts straight.

  • Dante Laboy

    acting suspiciously based on what activity exactly…GZ’s paranoid delusions and racial animus? Thats what powered the acquittal and racist support for GZ. The idea that blacks are inherently “suspicious”, and should bow with deference, when an armed non-black citizen accosts him or her on a public street. GZ is on the phone with dispatchers calling TM “fcking punks”, and “they always get away”: Why is he acting so aggressively towards a boy he doesnt even know? There is no way people wouldnt identify with TM, if he were white. There is a racial empathy gap at best here.

  • iCrap

    Unfortunately in this day and age, when I see a black youth I get nervous. Once again Trayvon would not of been in Sanford at his dad’s girlfriends condo if he had not gotten suspended from school. So unfortunately, Trayvon shouldn’t of even been at the scene. It’s a sad situation all the way around. However George Zimmerman does not deserve all the blame. The jury got the verdict right.

  • Rational_Db8

    I’m sorry. You think it’s not unreasonable to attack someone who seems suspicious and is following you. In fact, it’s illegal, and you’ll be arrested and convicted for assault. Furthermore, if you are in a fight with them and have won, so they are doing nothing more than trying to get away, screaming for help for nearly a minute as you continue bashing their head into pavement, its a very serious felony called aggravated batter – and people are accidentally killed that way all the time – then they get convicted of manslaughter, because you cannot legally keep bashing on someone when they’re doing everything they can to get away and you have clearly won the fight.

    I’d strongly suggest you rethink what really is reasonable – or you’ll wind up in jail. That, or in fact you haven’t ever done what you are saying, because you don’t actually believe it’s at all reasonable when it comes to real life.

  • Rational_Db8

    Errr, I may be wrong, but I’m pretty certain that it’s in no way illegal to enter a gated community over the wall or by way of other convenient access points than the main gates. Particularly when you are living there – it’s your neighborhood, you can enter it any way you want to. Also pretty sure there wasn’t a wall Martin came over – gated doesn’t always mean completely walled. I live in a gated community (there is virtually no other sort here, which always seemed weird to me) – and have never been told I couldn’t cut thru to get back and forth to the store next door. I actually go over a low wall and between bars on top of that wall. I saves walking quite a distance in the wrong direction only to have to literally double back and cover that ground again.

  • Duder

    Umm… the 911 call indicates that he said he was pursuing, despite the fact that the 911 operator suggested against it. It doesn’t get more factual than actually saying you are pursuing.

  • Duder

    Even if he was not told to stay in the car, if he felt so “threatened” by this young boy, why pursue? I’ll tell you why… because he had the courage of the gun in his holster. If not, his cowardly self never would’ve dared to follow. Bottom line still, Trayvon was not committing ANY crime to be followed.

  • Dante Laboy

    So you’re basically saying he deserved to die because he got into such minor trouble, it didnt even rise to the level of a prosecutable offense (not to mention some of those offenses are right wing fabrications)…its time to take a long hard look in the mirror, pal. You’re a sociopath.

  • Duder

    And Zimmerman had previously assaulted a police officer and abused his lady so bad that she had to get a restraining order… So why does he get a pass on his past and Trayvon doesn’t?

  • Duder

    Though I don’t agree that Zimmerman should’ve killed Trayvon, because HE SHOULDN’T HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING HIM TO BEGIN WITH, this comment is very funny.

    Hahahahahahahaha… I love the sarcasm.

  • Dante Laboy

    what about fighting back with your hands. He had a 30 pound weight advantage over TM. GZ sounded really tough and aggressive on the phone with dispatchers, calling TM “fcking punks”, and “they always get away”, yet we are supposed to believe he magically turned into this helpless invalid that was powerless to stop the big savage, 17 year old martin. The same kid that was running from him minutes prior. Just pathetic.

  • Rational_Db8

    If you listened to the testimony during the trial, the police neighborhood watch coordinator specifically said that if asked, she would not tell someone they couldn’t follow a suspicious person from a safe distance so they could point them out to the police when they got there. That it’s one way to be sure the police can actually find the person. They won’t encourage you or discourage you from doing it. They will encourage you to try to be sure you stay at a safe distance.

    You’re dead wrong about the eyewitness. The best eyewitness (closest, saw the most) stated unequivocally that the taller black guy in the hoodie (Trayvon) was on top, pinning the shorter white or hispanic guy in the red jacket (George) to the ground, pounding on him MMA ‘ground and pound’ style, while the guy in the red jacket screamed repeatedly for help. There wasn’t any question about it.

    Equating Zimmerman in any way to a drunk driver is insane. Drunk driving is clearly illegal and irresponsible. Zimmerman did nothing illegal or irresponsible or even negligent. In fact, he did everything he was asked to by the police, including reporting a suspicious person and watching them as best he could until the police got there.

    As you say, however, the court system did it’s job, and he was found not guilty – people really should accept that unless they manage to turn up some evidence that directly contradicts the results. So far, the only people disagreeing with the verdict seem to be those who haven’t a clue about the actual evidence in the case, and no one has turned up anything new that would question the results. There’s just a load of race baiting, misinformation, and outright lies going around.

  • Dante Laboy

    If anyone comes across as a “thug”, its you.

  • Duder

    And Zimmerman made NO EFFORT to IDENTIFY HIMSELF, and say anything to Martin. He could’ve simply rolled up, while still in his car, and said, “hey guy, how’s everything going, is everything alright…” (sarcasm, but you get the point) or simply, “Hey, I’m with neighborhood watch, is there anything I can help you with”

    But NO, he pursued, with gun in hand, disgruntled (as heard on the recording), ready to do something.

  • Dante Laboy

    Right… a “watch” member. Not follow with a gun member. Thats for actual law enforcement officials. What exactly was TM doing that night that invited attention from an armed stranger who did not identify himself, and whom he did not know. Do you instruct your loved ones to engage with armed stalkers at night?

  • Dante Laboy

    Neighborhood watch is fine. Murdering kids is not.

  • Dante Laboy

    There are degrees of culpability when it comes to murder. 1st degree murder, which you seem to be describing, is not the only legal standard.

  • Dante Laboy

    Kinda proves the point that white conservatives lost their mind when “Obamao” was elected.

  • Dante Laboy

    Okay, then please provide your personal info and allow me and my friends to “follow” you and your loved ones at night, armed, all under the guise of “safety”. Im sure you wont mind, just like Trayvon apparently wasnt supposed to

  • Dante Laboy

    He wasnt charged with not listening to a 911 dispatcher — he was charged with murder. He was supposed to be a night watch man who is only concerned with safety of the neighborhood, correct? Well an actual professional, which GZ was not, assessed the situation and told him to stop pursuing. So why would he need to keep up a chase, when an actual professional deems it unnecessary? This moron had fantasies of being bigger than he was, and it resulted in a tragedy. He got off, but karma is a bytch.

  • Rational_Db8

    Right, and Zimmerman didn’t murder a kid, so finally we’re in agreement.

  • Dante Laboy

    Things a sociopath would say for 200, Alex.

  • Rational_Db8

    You and I went around before on a different article’s comment section, and it’s quite clear that you could give a rip about facts, logic, reason – you are just trolling and no matter what happened, to you, the black person is always innocent regardless, and the white – or hispanic – is always guilty. There’s no point in talking with someone like you. You already know Trayvon’s earlier offenses in fact did rise to the level of being prosecutable. You in fact already know that none of his record is fabricated by right wing, and is in fact documented by the police and school. You in fact know that Trayvon was committing a serious felony, aggravated battery, when he got shot. I believe you were one of those who completely refused to answer what you’d be saying if everything occurred identically, but Trayvon happened to be white (or hispanic) and George black. Because in fact, you are the racist.

    I think I’ve told you before – look up psychological projection because you seem to be suffering from it. That or you were looking in the mirror yourself as you typed that you’re sociopath. More likely, you meet the definition of insane, because you keep making up a fantasy about others and accusing them of things they’ve in no way said, done, or thought. You’re off your rocker, in short.

  • coast

    I was addressing the part where you said the witness said that a specific person was screaming. The witness never said that a specific person was screaming – he could not tell.
    I’ve served on neighborhood watch in my neighborhood, been through what is proper procedure and based on what Zimmeran did, I do think he was negligent. If you listen to the recording (where the police question him on what he said to Martin when they met), he said that he did not identify himself as neighborhood watch. He basically said that he did not have the presence of mind to do that. He didn’t have the presence of mind to do that properly, but he somehow had the presence of mind to cap a guy when he was getting beat upon. Something is wrong with that picture, don’t you think?
    Yes, the only ones who really know exaclty what went down are Martin and Zimmerman. And again, based on the evidence presented, I think the jurors did what they were supposed to do.
    I do believe Zimmerman was negligent in following proper procedure – watch and report is not that hard. I point that out because the intent to kill is not there, but if you are going to go on patrol with a weapon, you should really know what you’re doing. Police are trained to do this and even they make mistakes. It appears that Zimmerman wanted to do this even without the training. The end result is that it’s something he’s going to have to live with the rest of his life. I’m betting that if he had it to do over again, knowing the possible outcome, he’d do some things differently. How about you? Are you going to head out on neighborhood watch with a loaded weapon ready to do the job of the police? I’m guessing that you’re probably not familiar with the whole concept anyway since you see no fault in what Zimmerman did.

  • Rational_Db8

    Yes, I imagine you would be an expert on that category.

  • Tai Mega

    Sad that a black kid doing nothing wrong, deserves to be confronted by a stranger, and then killed in a confrontation. I don’t see these cases as having any other similarities beyond guns. Known criminal activity is one thing, profiling is something else. Trayvon did nothing to deserve this, and its unfortunate that people continue to make clear evil fair seeming.

  • Dante Laboy

    point to me a credible source that says that Trayvon had a criminal record. Just direct me to such, and I’ll shut up. You cant. You gorge on extremist bullsht so often, that you cant even discern fact from fiction. Even your ridiculous smear video admitted Trayvon didnt have a record, but commited an end around by claiming that the school protected him, or some wacky b.s like that. You are a grown man, justifying the murder of a innocent kid, all because of racial hangups. You are the thug. You are the maladaptive threat to society.

  • Rational_Db8

    Where did I ever say Trayvon had a criminal record? In fact, I didn’t, and as usual, you are the one making things up. Trayvon absolutely has a school record, which includes behavioral problems – and those problems were documented by the police department in the school. It’s not b.s. that they were trying to juke the stats – that’s also now well documented and on record, and the head of that police department was forced to resign because of it – and it all came to light because they were suppressing Trayvon’s record and it got leaked. You know full well Trayvon was no innocent kid. In fact he was committing several crimes that very night. The racial hangup is entirely yours. Race clearly wasn’t an issue in this case – even the PROSECUTION argued that during their closing arguments, and the FBI did a thorough investigation, interviewing over 47 people and found zero evidence of any racial animus.

    Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall a mile thick.

  • Rational_Db8

    George was in a bar with a friend when he saw what looked like someone starting a fight with the friend. He gave the guy a single push to back him up away from the friend and hopefully keep the guy from starting a fight with his friend. The guy turned out to be a plainclothes cop who hadn’t identified himself. Who then went overboard with charges. Police take any physical action against officer very seriously, and they don’t drop charges like that unless they were trumped up and overblown to begin with. They dropped the charges.

    There is ZERO evidence of any violence by George with his ex-girlfriend. She filed a restraining order against him, he filed against her, BOTH were granted by the judge. It doesn’t take any evidence of violence for domestic restraining orders. There are no pictures of her having supposedly been hit by him, there’s no arrest, nothing.

    And I believe all of that occurred back when George was 20 – it was years ago anyhow. Meanwhile, virtually everyone who’s been around him the last few years reports that he’s very mild mannered and even meek.

    There IS a LOT of evidence of Trayvon’s violence, including a lot in his own words and from his friends too. And it’s been going on in the past few years including a lot very recently. By his own words, he was a brawler who liked to fight. His own brother, crying over the loss, said that “Trayvon was going to teach me how to fight.”

    That’s why Trayvon’s violence and drug use is brought up, and George’s isn’t. Because there’s evidence of it with Trayvon, and not with George.

  • gwumpycat

    Zimmerman didn’t have the personal information of anyone, moron. If you see someone in a public space, you can follow them if you want to. It’s not against the law even though your butt is hurt.

  • Munchkin

    Sorry but if you think it is legal to follow someone for no reason then explain the stalking laws. And in your own words “follow from a safe distance” well if it was from a “safe” distance then how did he get his a$$ beat? If he had followed from a safe distance and stayed in his car as directed then a young boy would still be alive today and a man would not be in fear for his life and living with the fact he killed a young boy right now

  • Rational_Db8

    Then you would be certainly wrong. By the way, that’s not a criminal record. He was never convicted of anything. That account is incomplete, however, leaving out key aspects of the incident with the policeman – like the fact that they were in a bar, and a guy in regular clothes seemed to be attacking a friend of George’s, so George gave him a single push to back him up. Turned out it was a plainclothes policeman who hadn’t identified himself, and the charges were trumped up and overboard – which is why they were dropped.

    The article is also quite wrong about Trayvon’s record of violence, as I suspect you already know.

    But hey, why let a few facts get in the way of your preferred bias?

  • Munchkin

    Get your facts straight, he was staying with his father and his fathers girlfriend in that gated community

  • Rational_Db8

    I suggest YOU look up stalking laws, because following a person once isn’t stalking. Why in the world do you think Zimmerman wasn’t charged with stalking too? Oh, gee, yeah, because legally he didn’t come close to meeting he definition.

    If you bothered to learn the facts of the case, you would know that George lost sight of Trayvon entirely, only to have Travyon surprise him up close out of the dark a few minutes later. Not because George followed and got close, but because he lost sight of him entirely – that’s reported on the 911 call – and then Trayvon doubled back, snuck up on him, and jumped in his face out of the dark.

    Stop with the lie about being told to stay in his car. He was NEVER told to stay in his car, and that’s a blatant lie that I’m really sick of.

    We can all play bogus what if games. If Trayvon had just not defaced school property, stolen jewelry, and had drugs and drug paraphernalia, he never would have been suspended for the third time, and never would have been there in the first place so he’d probably be alive today. Had Trayvon not gone to the store that night, even though he was grounded, he’s still be alive today. Had Trayvon not been between houses where there was no sidewalk looking in windows and acting suspiciously, he’s still be alive today. Had George, or Trayvon, never been born, the shooting never would have happened either. See how that works?

    Sheesh.

  • Munchkin

    Actually it was acknowledged in court that TM asked GZ why he was following him and he chose not to answer. So saying that all TM had to do was ask is a big leap on your part. But regardless of the details people choose to read the way they want to read them a young man lost his life and NOBODY was a witness to who started what. The jury has spoken and regardless of what everyone believes there is nothing to be done about it now except to file in a civil court which won’t bring TM back. The only ones that know who started what is GZ, TM and god and god will make the final judgement.

  • Joseph Philbert

    Yawn … well he still instigated a fight if your account is even part true.

  • Dogtown

    It’s a property crime not involving a threat to a person. This doesn’t apply. You can not use deadly force to protect just property. There has to be a threat to your person. Breaking into your house while you’re home is a threat to your person

  • Dante Laboy

    no…give me your address, so me and others can arm ourselves and follow you and your family at night. Whats good for Trayvon should be good for you, since you are so adament that its “not against the law”.

  • rickne

    Stereotype much?

  • Flybob

    Gun in hand? idiot

  • gwumpycat

    Zimmerman didn’t have the personal information or address of anyone, moron. If you see someone in a public space, you can follow them if you want to. It’s not against the law even though your butt is hurt.

  • Flybob

    I’m just sick and tired of being run over by people that think they have something coming from my hard labors. Our government is the thug for taking MY stuff and giving it to people that refuse to make their own way. I’m not taking any crap any more from people that won’t pull their own weight and then when something happens they don’t like they scream race. Well I’m WHITE AND PROUD OF IT! I feel HORRIBLE for martin’s family but he could have EASILY talked to Zimmerman. There was AMPLE evidence in the 911 recordings. martin had PLENTY opportunity to ask for directions or at least let Zimmerman know he was no threat to anyone. He CHOSE to make it worse. If you can’t see that in the trial then YOU are the racist thug and I WILL NOT BE PUSHED AROUND BY THAT TYPE EVER AGAIN! The trial is over and the jury has decided, and correctly. I watched most of the trial and there is NO doubt Zimmerman was in fear for his life or great bodily harm. I don’t think HE likes what happened either but he had no choice in his opinion. It’s over, get used to it.

  • Flybob

    You’re a moron, martin was almost 50lbs over Zimmerman. Try getting your facts straight. Zimmerman was in fear for his life and I don’t blame him. Martin was a bigger guy by a long shot.

  • Dante Laboy

    Right, and when you leave the house Im going to follow you with a gun at night. You claim its a perfectly legal activity, that nobody should be offended by…so you should have no problems, right?

  • Dante Laboy

    You’re broke. Quit lying, you unstable maniac. You think and type like a child….lol @ you developing anything sucessful in life. Im sure I could buy you and sell you many times over.

  • Dante Laboy

    lol…thats it for you. Its widely known that GZ was far heavier. You arent in collection of your sanity, much less any facts.

  • Flybob

    Initials FO mean anything to you? I actually work for a living….probably to support you, and I NEVER lie. AND IF I’m broke it’s not because I didn’t work. By the way moron, I’m the chief pilot of a very successful company. Buy me many times over? good for you, I do pretty well

  • Dante Laboy

    LOL…you cant even put together a coherent sentence.

  • Flybob

    get a life ahole

  • gwumpycat

    If you have the legal right to carry that gun where I live, go for it. It’s not against the law.

  • Shawn60

    Did you miss the parenthetical statement that Zimmerman was not ‘stalking’? I’m not even going to bother looking for a law that says an adult can’t follow a juvenile. Oh and there was no ‘direct police order’. I hope you think you sound impressive with your statement because I can promise you nobody else does

  • Shawn60

    Other than your tone when you threaten to get a gun and follow me, no, I wouldn’t have a problem with you doing that. Because with that attitude I don’t expect you to NOT do something supremely stupid & either land in jail or 6 feet deep

  • Shawn60

    one problem laboy…you can’t prove he continued to follow once the dispatch SUGGESTED he stop

  • iamwinstonsmith

    I’m sick and tired of the “profiling” excuse for Trayvon Martin. Anyone who knows anything about this situation knows that Zimmerman’s neighborhood had multiple burglaries in the months prior.

    Also, “profiling” is never an excuse to jump on someone, punch them multiple times in the face, and bash the back of their heads repeatedly into concrete.

    Zimmerman did not “confront” Martin, but simply followed him at a distance. Martin was the one who “confronted” Zimmerman.

  • iamwinstonsmith

    Yep, except for the fact that Zimmerman is a Hispanic Jew.

    Do you have something against Latinos and Jewish people?

  • iamwinstonsmith

    Exactly. People seem to forget the whole part where Trayvon Martin jumped Zimmerman and tried to beat him to death for “following” him.

  • jack johnson

    Who’s giving him a pass?

  • jack johnson

    2nd degree murder? Do you seriously think a human being would call the police to tell them their location and where they are about to kill someone and ask the police to come? Murder has ill will intended to it…

  • jack johnson

    I have lived in some of the roughest areas of Connecticut and black people profile blacks all the time and rightfully so. If you’re kids are playing on the street and a car full of gang bangers is riding around or kids selling drugs down the block, they know play time is over.

  • Bill Gryan

    When the shoe fits. Take a look at his photo if you’re still confused.

  • http://www.humboldtlib.blogspot.com/ Fred Mangels

    Db8 wrote, “I’m sorry. You think it’s not unreasonable to attack someone who seems suspicious and is following you. In fact, it’s illegal, and you’ll be arrested and convicted for assault”.

    That’s right. There’s nothing wrong with following someone in your neighborhood you deem to be suspicious. Most of us wouldn’t go that far, but there’s nothing wrong with it.

    Quite frankly, I find it quite disturbing the number of people who say it’s ok to attack someone just because they think they’re being followed.

  • Bill Gryan

    I confess that I, too, would be disinclined to follow a thug if I didn’t have a weapon. I think the police even do this as well. Next time you see a policeman with a gun, be sure to tell him what a coward he is.

  • allen

    Start following the white people and see how they like it. They (whites) don’t get it. Make sure you carry a gun so when they get irate or start to fight you can legally shoot them. Tray was walking home, maybe he didn’t want to lead George Stalkerman to his house. It would have been better if GZ would have been convicted. Because of his stupidity even though it was legal he can no longer walk in public.

  • klm726

    It is not illegal to follow someone. It *is* illegal to break a person’s nose & bash his head against cement. Had Trayvon not done those things & continued walking to the home where he was staying, it would have been a different story.

  • Aaron Thomas

    So Martin was not allowed to defend himself?

  • klm726

    He was not directed to stay in the car. A civilian 911 operator testified that they cannot issue orders telling anyone to pursue or stand down. Depending on which version you believe, Zimmerman was either returning to his truck when he was assaulted by Martin or he continued following him. While that part is muddy, what is clear is that Zimmerman had injuries such as a broken nose & multiple gashes & contusions on the back of the head. Forensics said the injuries were indicative that Martin was on top. Martin was the aggressor, not Zimmerman

  • klm726

    Zimmerman shot him because he “reasonably felt his life was in danger”

  • klm726

    He was pursuing when he was speaking to the civilian 911 operator. We don’t know, do we, whether or not Zimmerman continued pursuing or if he was returning to the truck when Martin attacked him. His version was that he was that he was returning to the car. What is known is that Zimmerman’s nose was broken & he had cuts & bruises on the back of his head where it was bashed on the cement. A civilian 911 operator cannot tell a person to pursue or stand down. Zimmerman broke no law. Martin did

  • Dante Laboy

    any idiot can pull a trigger. It takes no effort, balls, valor, or honor…which is why conservatives are so drawn to its full proof capabities. So, I have the confidence that I could manage to “stand my ground” in a fight I provoked, and in possession of a deadly weapon, and w/ you being unarmed.

  • Dante Laboy

    2nd degree was appropriate. The parameters of the murder fit the description of someone who showed reckless disregard for another human beings life, which is the standard for 2nd degree. He called the police to cover his tracks. He’s a psycho that wasnt going to let “that fcking punk get away”

  • klm726

    The civilian 911 operator did not tell him to stay in the car. The civilian 911 operator testified that they are not permitted to issue orders. Martin fit the physical description of someone who had been seen breaking into homes in a gated community. Martin was seen cutting through people’s yards and looking into windows. It was also Martin who threw the punch which broke Zimmerman’s nose and who was also beating his head on the cement. That 17 year old “boy” was no angel. He was living with his father because his mother couldn’t deal with his thug lifestyle. This ‘boy” had THC in his system & I’m sure if they were to have searched his home, they’d have found some Robitussin, which, when mixed with Skittles & Arizona Watermelon Juice (the same flavor of tea Martin was carrying) produce a cocktail called Purple Drank or Lean, a drug very popular in the hip-hop community. Check some of his tweets – he’s asking people if they have a hook for codeine. Maybe if he wasn’t using drugs, he’d have had a clearer, less paranoid head and would not have assaulted Zimmerman. His actions & his decisions are what caused his death. Not Zimmerman’s alleged following.

    occupyhln(dot)org/george-zimmerman/skittles-and-iced-tea-or-purple-drank/

  • klm726

    where did you hear he felt threatened by Martin? All that he’s ever said and all that was stated at trial was he phoned in to report a person who fit the physical description of a person seen breaking into homes in their gated community. That alone was reason enough for Zimmerman, a community watchman, to follow him. Zimmerman told the civilian 911 operator he could not identify the race of the person (and, if you hadn’t noticed, kids of all races were & still are wearing hoodies – it’s not a “black thing”). The crimes committed were by Martin. Martin’s actions were what resulted in his death.

  • klm726

    No, Zimmerman had the right to defend himself against a person who had broken his nose & was beating his head on the cement. Following someone is not a crime.. Assaulting someone is a crime.

  • klm726

    He wasn’t profiled based upon race. Zimmerman told the civilian 911 operator that he did not know what the race of the person in the hoodie was, only that he physically resembled a person who had been seen breaking into homes in the gated community.

  • HML

    When you run at someone in a threatening manner getting caught breaking into someones car is when the trouble starts, as it did in this case. Mr. Scott nor Mr. Zimmerman did anything wrong…

  • klm726

    The injuries were a bit more severe than “scratches” Zimmerman wasn’t stalking Martin. Martin did assault Zimmerman. End of story.

    Some pictures:
    wusa9(dot)com/news/photo-gallery.aspx?storyid=205732

  • klm726

    Man with gun would not have to defend himself if thug does not assault you & break your nose then start bashing your head on the cement.

  • HML

    First place the dad called was the PD because of priors.

  • md

    SELECTIVE PERCEPTION makes us ignore differences between individuals; therefore we have OPINIONS and ASSUMPTIONS about people THAT MAY NOT BE TRUE. Look at fact and details, Mr. Martin was guilty of looking suspicious that’s all…. Being different should not be a crime…but we are humans, we are quick to judge. It’s our nature to be uncomfortable to something that’s different from what we are accustomed too…. I sometimes dress in a hoodie jogging in my gated community, I must be shoot too? really? You’re comment alone show you how Selective perception, mixed with a little ignorance runs in our veins in America…#GodBless America!..LOL

  • Sam B.

    Yeah, it’s a great idea to walk around finding reasons to murder people. /sarcasm

    No, you’re a fucking psycho, and a racist.

  • allen

    I would never do that. I don’t own a gun. But, it makes you mad, that’s the feeling that Tray’s parents are probably feeling.

  • shavager

    AND what the media WON’T tell you, Fla LAW, STATUTE 776.032 specifically SAYS: “The (law enforcement) agency MAY NOT arrest the person for using force UNLESS it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used WAS UNLAWFUL.”—that is why Zimmerman WAS NOT ARRESTED and JAILED–the evidence clearly backed up his story, and police saw no probably cause he acted ILLEGALLY or UNLAWFULLY pending further investigation by State Attorney’s office.

  • Dante Laboy

    following someone and threatening intimidation is certainly a “crime”…so let me ask you this. If you were walking home at night, and some strange man was following you menacingly. You think if you called the police and told them you’re scared to death, they would say: “welp, its not a crime to follow someone. You’re on your own….Im sure he doesnt mean any harm.”

    You people around here are not too bright.

  • Dante Laboy

    similar clothing? He was wearing a sweater.

  • Gym Bob

    If he had not attacked GZ he would still be alive too.

  • Gym Bob

    Nobody said he deserved to die, geez…You might want to take a long hard look at your own mirror.

  • Gym Bob

    You clearly haven’t heard of those things called FACTS…

  • Gym Bob

    Rational~ You hit the nail on the head! But don’t bring politics into it…

  • Rational_Db8

    Hi HML,

    That’s one aspect I haven’t run across much, but have heard several people mention – e.g., how and when the Dad first noticed Trayvon was missing (or any adult for that matter). I’d be interested in details, if you or anyone else has a good link with that info….

  • NevadaMom

    The autopsy proved Trayvon had drugs in his system. Trayvon’s school suspension, as well as his own facebook posts and twitter account confirmed he was a drug user. The truth will set you free.

  • NevadaMom

    Sharpton says, “We not stupid! We not ingnunt!” You just proved him wrong.

  • Rational_Db8

    I pretty much agree with your post, good information, but well, a minor correction; make that about 46 calls in the past FOUR YEARS. Not past 30 days. And many of those were to report problems like lights that had burned out, potholes, etc. In other words, ordinary city maintenance issues, because that non-emergency line is the same line you’re supposed to report those things to also. I think about 12 were reporting “people” issues, including some young kids playing in the street with cars going by that he thought was dangerous but didn’t know who’s kids they were. It’s also worth noting that some of those calls were tied to one burglary, and resulted in someone actually being arrested, charged, and eventually convicted – so George was credited with helping get one burglar convicted.

  • Rational_Db8

    Excuse me, please explain how one is to “watch” someone who goes around the corner out of sight?

    There is no requirement that people with a concealed carry permit who carry their guns all the time must disarm for Neighborhood Watch.

    What exactly TM was doing that invited attention was being between houses where there is no sidewalk, staring into windows, looking around furtively as if to see if anyone was watching him, moving like he was on drugs rather than a sober person, then wandering on during a cold rainy night instead of acting like he was actually heading somewhere or trying to get out of the rain. In other words, he was acting in ways that pretty much anyone would find suspicious – and in EXACTLY ways that the police had told the Neighborhood Watch members, including George, to always call in.

    You can’t tell if a concealed carry person is armed or not, especially at night, which is why it’s called concealed carry.

    Up your game LaBoy, or at least try a little logic and a few actual facts.

  • Rational_Db8

    No, that wasn’t acknowledged in court, quite the contrary. The testimony was different depending on who it was from, but GZ stated in all 6 of his interviews that when TM popped up right in fron of him out of the dark and said something like “You got a problem?” He immediately answered along the lines of “No, I don’t have a problem.” To which Trayvon immediately said “well you do now” and sucker punched him breaking his nose and knocking him to the ground.

    Rachel Jeantel also testified that Trayvon spoke first, only she claimed he said “why you following me for?!” and that George replied, then she heard a thump she thought was headphones being knocked off. I don’t recall what she said George replied off hand. She’s also said on TV that she believes Trayvon threw the first punch and was “just” “whoooop-@@@@ssssss!!!” on George, not “bash” him, and she went on to explain that “bash” means actually killing.

    All the evidence supports George’s account of what occurred, including the fact that he volunteered for and passed, with flying colors, a polygraph either that night or the very next day. Including the lead police investigator saying he completely believed George’s account and thought he was innocent, which you virtually never hear from a policeman that way. Including forensics, the best eyewitnesses (closest and heard the most) etc., etc. etc.

    Point is, testimony from all sources doesn’t match what you are claiming at all.

  • Rational_Db8

    Flybob, for whatever it’s worth here’s my 2 cents and it’s meant well – while I can understand the sentiment, don’t lower yourself to their level. You’re better than that, and posting obscenities is beneath you and doesn’t even help get your point or feelings across – quite the contrary.

  • jack johnson

    So Zimmerman had ill intent and intended to kill when he shot someone who was beating him into the ground? Maybe you need to go back to law school

  • Rational_Db8

    Laboy, stop lying. I’ve already posted to you, on a different article comment section, the facts about their relative sizes and athletic abilities. You know full well George had no hope in any physical competition against Trayvon.

    I really do think more and more that you are just a racist concern troll who doesn’t give a rip what the facts are. Prove me wrong.

  • Dogtown

    yes, that’s the debatable part of the case. 17 y.o. unarmed, staring at a gun screaming “don’t shoot me”. It’s questionable how he thought he was being threatened.

  • Rational_Db8

    Actually Flybob, Zimmerman was heavier- he was clinically obese at the time, even tho also far thinner then than he is now. Doesn’t change facts however, because Trayvon was between 4″ to 7″ taller and that much longer reach, a top athlete, and by his own words a brawler who liked to start and be in fights, including MMA style with rounds and everything.

    George, while he was heavier, was as noted, soft, fat, far shorter, extremely non-athletic, never played any sports even as a kid, and far outclassed in any physical competition against Trayvon.

    There is no doubt that he was in fear for his life, and I don’t blame him in that regard either. His nose was already broken, he was on the ground pinned and unable to get away, and his head being bashed repeatedly into concrete – ANYONE would fear for their life under those circumstances.

  • Dae

    My opinion both of these want-to-be cops are idiots and cowards protected by the same unjust law that protects idiots and cowards in uniform when they use deadly force unnecessarily. The fear defense worked for both defendants because their victims were characterized as thugs. Though white his criminal behavior and the high levels of alcohol and amphetamine in his system at the time of death allowed the jurors to devalue his life and lump him in with the rest of the so called thugs America and obviously most of you could give a fuck about. People act as if they themselves are perfect choir boys. Going through a rough stage in life is no reason to be murdered it;s called growing up, living and learning from mistakes. If you think Scott used unnecessary force then you should feel the same about Zimmerman. If not you are caught up in your own racial ideology where by white is always right and black is always wrong or black is always right and white is always wrong. Wake up.

  • spectr

    Martin was trespassing by being in someones front yard, and during the burglar hour for 1.
    But then he decided to go after an unknown vehicle and circle it while threatening any occupants like he had a gun.
    That’s a felony !

  • Sean Hoffman-Murphy

    It’s like everyone on Trayvon’s side is TRYING to stay ignorant of the facts in this case. History won’t look back kindly this sort of willful ignorance.

  • Rational_Db8

    He’s not describing first degree murder at all. For it to be first degree, you have to have planned the murder in advance. Gun training is if you have to shoot at someone in self defense, you unload your clip to make SURE they are down. That’s self defense, not murder at all – and that is the advice given because all too often people have to be hit multiple times in order to even stop them. It all depends on where the bullets happen to hit, and just how much adrenaline the other person has going, etc., etc. In many situations, people feel the “punch” of the bullet hitting, but don’t even realize it was a bullet that hit them, and they keep right on coming. It’s not like the movies and TV where the vast majority of the time a single shot immediately knocks the person down and presto, they’re dead. That’s just not real life.

    I knew a woman who’s ex-husband came after her, she shot him SIX TIMES up close as he was rushing her, and he still got to her, smacked her, backed up and shot her point blank in the gut with a shotgun, then he went several hundred yards got in his car, drove off, and died a few miles down the road. It was a miracle she survived, but she did (had god knows how many different surgeries too, trying to partially correct the damage to the extent possible and keep her alive).

    Police who’ve been involved in shootings will tell you the same thing, and it’s commonplace on the battlefield. People often don’t even feel any pain from being shot for several minutes, other than the initial brief feeling like they got punched as the bullet hits them from the kinetic energy.

  • Rational_Db8

    Racist concern troll strikes again.

  • Rational_Db8

    Yes, centuries ago – haven’t you seen how many comments related to the Trayvon/Zimmerman case bring up slavery?

  • Rational_Db8

    Sorry, but there is no evidence that he instigated a fight in any way. Following someone never justifies the person being followed starting a physical fight. If it did, we couldn’t even having cities at all, because there’d be no one walking down the street, it’d be nothing but wall to wall brawls as those being followed turned to strike those who happened to be walking in the same direction.

    As to your link… uh-huh, rrrriiiiiiiiight – so a single report from an unnamed supposed co-worker without any evidence what-so-ever from a company that supposedly made their business by providing security to ILLEGAL house parties (hate to break it to you, but a company like that wouldn’t last long before the police shut them down) from one of the most left wing sources out there – and you believe it? It’s completely unsubstantiated, and not a single person has come out to corroborate the story. Not even the alleged woman involved – and no arrests, no complaint by her or anyone else there to the police, just nothing. And you buy that as somehow meaningful? Please.

  • Don

    If Zimmerman was committing a crime by following him to let the police know where Travon was, why didn’t Travon call the police, I mean he had four minutes to either call the police or walk less than 80 yards to his dads house, plenty of time to do both, but he chose to stay hidden and jump Zimmerman. Its how the jury saw it and its why he had the right to defend himself. Legally.

  • Don

    NOt against the Law for Zimmerman to follow someone who was in his neighborhood who looked suspicious and wasn’t recognized.

  • Rational_Db8

    Who knows. Sometimes good kids accidentally get caught up in bad situations. Maybe his brother talked him into hanging out with them that night, and he had no idea what they planned – or they decided to do it on the spur of the moment against his protests, but he didn’t have the strength to then leave instead of staying with them… maybe he thought he could help keep his brother out of trouble if he stayed to keep an eye out… who knows.

    I’m not willing to say an honor student kid with no other known problems (that I’m aware of) is bad because of one single occurrence. Maybe he was, but it’s also entirely possible that he wasn’t and just got caught up perhaps even unwillingly that one night.

  • Rational_Db8

    Yes, yes, George was such a wanna be cop, that when the police Neighborhood Watch coordinator tried to talk him into their civilian program because he was so professional and level headed, even meek, where he would have gotten a real police car (with amber instead of blue lights), police computer, badge, and uniform, actual police training and some authority, he turned her down. Boy is that ever a gung-ho wanna be cop all right!! /massive sarc

    Obviously you never watched the trial. Trayvon was in no way portrayed as a thug – in fact, those details weren’t allowed into evidence at all. Nor did the police who determined there was insufficient grounds to charge Zimmerman, or the DA who also found no sufficient grounds to charge Zimmerman, have that information at the time – so “thug” played ZERO part in any of this, other than our after the fact discussions.

    Also hate to break it to you, but going through a rough patch in life never justifies physically attacking another person as Trayvon did. It does, however, open yourself up to huge risk because it gives the other person legal justification to use potentially lethal force to protect themselves against you – and that’s true even if you are otherwise a choir boy yourself.

    It’s also crystal clear that you haven’t a clue what I care about, but you are sure willing to jump to nasty assumptions.

    Lastly: I’m sorry, sir/madam, but there is a problem with your Race Card®.

    It’s been declined, and is badly overdrawn.

    Perhaps you could actually try to make a relevant argument instead.

    I’d suggest you try taking your own advice about waking up.

  • Rational_Db8

    Of course, it’s one of the other drunk kids claiming he was staring at the gun saying “don’t shoot me” so that aspect is very much a he said-he said situation, and not nearly as clean cut as you are trying to imply.

  • Rational_Db8

    Umm… in fact that is NOT what the 911 call indicates. The 911 call indicates that after being asked where Trayvon was ‘now,’ George got out of his vehicle and walked in the direction he’d seen Trayvon dissappear from. Then the dispatcher asked if he was following, and he said yes. Dispatcher said “ok, we don’t need you to do that.” to which George immediately replied “ok.” Then you hear the wind noise (or breathing) disappear, which sure as heck implies George changed directions or stopped. Then almost immediately George reports that he’s lost sight of Trayvon again, and is heading back to his truck.

    In other words, nothing in the 911 call matches your claim.

    Apparently you have a little problem understanding the definition of the word “fact.”

  • Rational_Db8

    BINGO!

  • Joseph Philbert

    You can think what you like … and I can careless if the woman bothered to make a report (not everyone does) even his neighbors complained about GZ following him home also and other complaints about hem be overly aggressive. You can still go ahead and believe that GZ is the next coming of Jesus Christ on earth.

  • Dae

    By the way I played no race card. My entire viewpoint was a about two dead teenagers who’s murderer walks free because the jury bought into a character assassination.

  • Flybob

    hehe I know. I found out I was mistaken about the weight difference but I figure if the libtards on this site believe the fraud in thief is eligible they’ll believe anything. hehe And you’re right about the vulgarities too but I’m sick of it and until we stand up as men in this country against the ones that are doing their best to destroy it we don’t have a chance. And I’M MAD! So even though I really don’t have a dirty mouth or violent tendencies I’m willing to stand up for my country once and for all. They’re not taking everything I worked hard all my life for until they plant me. I’ve already lost my retirement and fortunately I have been smart enough to pay my home off and provide a little something for my wife if something happens to me but as far as enjoying my “golden years”, it has become a struggle for my freedom and country. Retirement options aren’t even in the running any more. I blame lawyers mostly but the unions, politicians and judges that refuse to adhere to the oath they took prior to taking office is about to make America a thing of the past. What will the libs do then? Blame us? Do it now and get it over with. I’m not going to be nice to libs any more and if that means talking vulgar and or whatever it takes then I’m willing to do as required. I hope we have the patriots we are used to having in our veterans. It’s our last chance to save the country. All of this bullcrap on these types of subjects are nothing but a distraction. We’re so screwed

  • Rational_Db8

    In fact, his neighbors all reported that he was very friendly, helpful, and mild mannered. Nor have there been any other reputable reports of him being aggressive, let alone “overly aggressive.” On the contrary, there have been many many reports exactly the opposite. But, hey, don’t let mere facts get in your way. You obviously have no problems making things up, including how I supposedly view GZ.

  • Rational_Db8

    Re-read the last part of your post – it sure sounded like you were playing the race card.

    I don’t know about the Scott case, but as I’ve already said, there was NO character assassination in the Zimmerman case, nor was there a murderer, by definition. But don’t let actual facts get in your way.

  • Mike

    Yeah? Be white and walk through Camden, Philadelphia, Newark, Compton, Detroit, Memphis, St. Louis, etc. You’re complaining about blacks getting stereotyped or ‘followed’. A white person can’t even walk through any of those
    listed cities without being a victim or threatened by blacks.

  • allen

    Its not a good feeling either way. In the south people say they’re not racists but when their black friends aren’t around they’re dropping N bombs. I get along more with Afr Ams at work, after that its latino time. There are some “cool” whites but not many. I can empathize with being stereotyped, it happens a lot. Some places are dangerous no matter who you are, you just stay away if you can.

  • RalphBoettcher

    Selective perception is right. What makes you think Zimmerman was thinking ‘I must shoot this guy because he is in a hoodie’ and not ‘I have to shoot this guy because he is beating me to death’?

    Don’t you see at least a slight difference between those two statements?

  • dmv2019

    And Zimmerman wasn’t playing wannabe cop by following Martin? I think both verdicts were correct but it seems that you have a little white bias going on.

  • Shawn60

    keep puffing up that chest ‘boy…sounds exactly like something Trayvon would have said & you see where that got him

  • Joshua50

    Maybe you should read the article first before commenting.. It happened in Greece, New York.

  • George Mason

    Well, just figuring out that “perception is reality” is a human trait huh? How is one to feel about someone that walks into a bank wearing a balaclava? I’m sure we should just accept him for who he really is and not have any suspicion they he may be there to rob it. Or the person walking in the orange jump suit with “County” printed on the back? Just an intellectual guy out for a walk. Sorry, impressions based on appearance a human trait that has been selected for since the beginning of time, get used to it. You may as well try to teach dogs to use toilets rather than lifting a leg.
    You sir are simply a hypocrite – you in fact dress differently for different occasions based on the impression you want to make then have the audacity to blame others for it. And if you think it is bad in America, go live in Europe where they have a far more tightly defined class system. Wear the wrong watch or brand of shoes and you are on the out side.

  • George Mason

    PS Trayvon died because he committed a crime (assault and battery), not because of a hoodie.

  • Joshua50

    George never yelled “freeze” or attempted to illegally detain anyone like Scott did. That’s playing wannabe cop IMHO.

    Christopher Cervini was shot twice, once in the front, once in the back. Does that sound like self defense to you (back turned to Scott) or pure and simple retaliation?

  • Joshua50

    No, Trayvon is not here. If he had survived he’d be in jail for assault and Battery or possibly attempted murder.

  • Joshua50

    If you’re truly in fear for your life, why would you confront the person at all? Especially if you managed to lose them? That makes no sense..

    No evidence whatsoever that Zimmerman tried to apprehend Trayvon or initiated the altercation. There is however a great deal of evidence to support Zimmerman’s initial statements.

  • Joshua50

    Not to be snarky, but would you lie on the ground and let someone bash your head on the pavement and pound on your face in until they possibly killed you? Especially if they told you “You’re goin’ to die tonight”? I doubt it. Most people would have responded exactly as Zimmerman did.

  • coast

    We’ll have to agree to disagree on the negligence aspect of it all. You quote little details as if you were there – like you know exactly how it all played out. I don’t pretend to know any of that, but I feel like I know enough to deduce that Zimmerman went beyond the normal duties of neighborhood watch.

    I’ll admit to not having watched every little detail of the trial; I do work for a living :) But from what I recollect, no one could specifically say who was asking for help for sure. Including the one eyewitness who saw things in the dark and said what he “thought” – not what he knew.

    If we had none of Zimmerman’s history to rely on (failed attempt to become a policeman, his general attitude about “this one not getting away”, his past history with anger issues, etc.), I’d probably agree with you completely. But I’ve known enough of the cop wannabe types. The general attitude leads to an itchy trigger finger.

    You think about this: what kind of a word would it be if everyone carried a gun and whenever a fist fight happened one of them killed the other because they were on the losing end. Unfortunately, people put little value on life. I think many are doing that here. That’s the issue with the way the “stand your ground” thing is going. It’s taken it outside into the general public versus defending your home. It’s all on the “what I thought might happen”. Anyone can say, “I thought my life was in danger”.

    For sure, I don’t know Zimmerman. He could be a wonderful guy, but from past history, I’m skeptical. For this latest heroic effort, I know little of that, but it seems a bit timely – don’t you think. He just happened to be in the right place I guess? I’ve lived for a few years now and it’s not like I stay in all the time. Rarely does anything like that happen around me. How about you? And think about this. The guy is supposedly staying out of sight (staying indoors mostly), but the one time he’s out, this happens – awfully convenient. I won’t go as far as saying it’s staged, but it’s awfully convenient.
    If Zimmerman wanted to do the job of a good neighborhood watchman, family man, he would have called it in and left it at that, but he apparently wanted to take it a bit further. If he had actually witnessed Martin breaking the law, that would have been totally different. And that’s where I’m talking about training. In my opinion (and I know you disagree), he went beyond his normal duties (stepped over into policing versus watching).

  • Duder

    It is a police officer’s JOB to pursue with a weapon and face the danger, NOT a neighborhood watchman.

  • Duder

    Wrong… it is a FACT that the 911 operator suggested for him not to follow. What do you think “WE DON’T NEED YOU TO DO THAT” means. It is a SUGGESTION not to do it. Sorry, I have no problem understanding the definition of the word fact, as you have just contradicted yourself.

    But… stubbornness is expected. I won’t respond back with you so go ahead and hurl your archaic insults from here. :-)

  • Duder

    And secondly, “blacks” special rights (I assume you mean things like affirmative action) are only there because they NEEDED to be there, because WHITES were constantly denying work to MORE THAN QUALIFIED black people, simply because of their color. Don’t forget the reason it was instituted to begin with. I agree that there should not be any affirmative action, but the sad truth is that unfortunately, there was and still is a lot of discrimination going.

    It would be very easy for you to “get over” racial issues, because you’ve probably never been a victim of them. And as such, you would not have any sensitivity.

  • Duder

    Pitiful response

  • Bill Gryan

    Spoken like a “bend over and take it” big-government liberal. Let me guess, it’s also not your “job” to help other people, or look out for your neighbor–it’s the government’s.

    And how is the question of “job” even relevant? Your initial comment suggested that anyone who didn’t face a thug with his bare hands was a coward.

  • Duder

    My initial post didn’t SUGGEST anything about anyone OTHER THAN actually STATING that Zimmerman was a coward. Don’t twist my words, and if you don’t understand, ask for clarity. Sheesh. P.S. You must like to bend over and take it for you to even use such a weird analogy. :-P

    You know, you seem to have a lot of hate in your heart, maybe you should meditate or pray or something.

    The job is completely relevant, but if you can’t see that, I’m not going to argue with you about it trying to educate you on comparative scenarios. And yes, it is all of our jobs to look out for each other, but we have police for a reason: let them do their jobs instead of us trying to do it for them when it isn’t even warranted. This boy was simply headed home. There was no justification for following him.

  • Bill Gryan

    OOOH GOLLY, we have a winner! A “liberal” who disparages gay behavior! I’ll be sure to meditate about that one.

    Okay, we’re clear now: you STATED that people who don’t face down thugs with their bare hands are cowards–it wasn’t merely a SUGGESTION. Now we know why you sit in your room, cowering in the corner, hoping the government will come to save your inner damsel-in-distress when the time comes.

    Just make sure you never put out your neighbor’s house fire with your garden hose. That’s the government’s job, after all. Heaven forbid that a person take responsibility for his own life. Did you get your free birth control pills yet?

    Note that any of us are permitted to follow anyone we deem suspicious. The “boy” (interesting choice of words), was headed home, and chose to violently confront someone who was doing nothing illegal. He chose to beat Zimmerman’s head into the concrete. He got shot for it. An unfortunate set of events, no doubt, but the shooting was justified. Case closed.

  • bobrien2

    And TM wasn’t shot for walking down the street with skittles. That’s the point moron.

  • voicereason

    No, the 911 tapes clearly demonstrates that he got out of his car when TM started running. GZ says as much. You also don’t hear the wind stop immediately after he says ok, it’s several seconds later. You can’t ‘change’ the facts.

  • voicereason

    Of course not, that’s why I said in my previous comment that he should have fought back with his hands. The words ‘You’re going to die tonight.’ was not heard by anyone except GZ, so that is not a fact in this case. Also, by the time he pulled out his gun and shot him he could not still possibly been experiencing his head banged onto the sidewalk, because they were no longer on the sidewalk, they were several feet away from the sidewalk on the soft grass. This has been corroborated by several witnesses.
    Again, this discussion is irrelevant at this point. Thanks for the civilized discourse.

  • Dante Laboy

    no….Ill be armed…..”boy”

  • Rational_Db8

    Re-read your post that I was replying to. My reply wasn’t about the dispatch “SUGGESTION” as you’re saying. It was about the timing of following vs. suggestion. In your comment, you stated that he followed DESPITE dispatch recommending he not follow. In the english language, that means he was following after dispatch suggested he stop. In fact, he was following BEFORE the suggestion, he agreed to the suggestion, THEN the wind sounds or breathing changes, which suggests he stopped following, and THEN he reported losing sight of Trayvon again. He did NOT indicate he was following after that suggestion, quite the opposite.

    There is no evidence that he followed after the suggestion, therefore it is not a fact, and you are factually challenged for making that claim.

  • Rational_Db8

    Oh, gee, so either he walked another step or two, or he stopped immediately and it took a second for his breathing to slow – either way, he stopped almost immediately after the dispatcher suggestion, exactly Is I reported. And that dispatcher suggestion came after he was already out of the car, not while he was in it. So just what the heck are you taking issue with, and just what “fact” did I supposedly change?

  • arebel1

    That’s the way to distort the facts!
    Zimmerman had stated he lost sight of him and was returning to his car when he was confronted by trayvon.
    Zimmerman may have been a wannabe cop, but Trayvon was a wannabe thug and made the poor decision to assault someone.

  • Rational_Db8

    Yep, agreed.

  • Justin

    Wow, what a stupid douche-bag

  • voicereason

    He was a young man. He had just turned 17 a few weeks prior to losing his life. Not almost 18 as many anti-Trayvon, pro-Zimmerman supporters have reported.

  • Rational_Db8

    That’s right, he was a young man not a young boy. Had he committed a serious crime, he probably would have been tried as an adult. Personally, I haven’t seen a single comment or article claim he was nearly 18 – and you want to quibble over that minor difference anyhow? He was a 17 year old young man, he wasn’t 12 year old or even younger young boy, exactly as stel posted.

  • Duder

    Hahahaha… there you go twisting words ago. I stated that Zimmerman (I didn’t say everyone, I said Zimmerman) was a coward.

    Second, I’m just enjoying the back and forth with you at this point because I know that you have no willingness to consider any point other than your own. And sorry buddy, I’m a little too active in society to wait on the government to do everything; I would, however, not go and follow ON FOOT someone who I thought was suspicious… at the most, watch from a distance in my safe car. :-)

    Thanks for the convo, by the way.

  • Duder

    Fair enough. I can respect that. :-)

  • Joshua50

    I’m sure you believed all of Brawley’s lies as well. It was all staged to prevent getting her butt kicked by her father..

    Trayvon is dead due to his violent behavior. Nobody is required by law to let some feral punk beat them to death. I’m sure Roderick Scott wouldn’t have waited over 45 seconds to shoot, but we already know that! He didn’t receive one blow before he shot a 16yr old to death over somebody else’s car..

  • Tawana First-Lady

    You have no idea what I believe and Brawley’s case has nothing to do with this posting…..but based on your comments we know what you believe….Trayvon was not violent or a punk he was a common black child walking down the street with a drink and skittles….Zimmerman was the aggressor and we know he is because he already has a record for abuse….he beat the crap out of a woman….HE IS SOFT….but because you cant hear all sides and choose to ignore the testimony’s of two people over the one person that put Zimmerman on the bottom of Trayvon because it gives you what you want a lie to get him off and down play the life of a black young man…Zimmerman will suffer the consequences one way or another….because that is the law of the land….Karma…..and whether he has to get plastic surgery to change his look to live a normal life, change his name, or remain the same and be harassed daily that is all a part of the mistake he made and the price he will have to pay…..And in reality….Zimmerman shot someone over a lot of other people homes because his home was never vandalized or burglarized….Like I said…I tell you many of you individuals try to act as though you are so intelligent can’t even focus on the discussion at hand you are attacking a persons character that you do not even know just as you have done for TM to support GZ….that is the issue and until you take away your biases, assumptions and allow people to show who they are themselves opposed to what you believe OR WAS TAUGHT AS A CHILD these unfortunate incidents will continue…Because in the end NO ONE WON ON THIS CASE….ZIMMERMAN DID NOT GO OUT TO KILL BUT HE HAS TO LIVE WITH A MURDER HE COMMITTED FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE AND TRAYVON DID NOT GO OUT TO CAUSE ANY ISSUES WITH ANYONE BUT HE IS DEAD AND HIS FAMILY WILL NEVER SEE HIM AGAIN….THAT IS THE FACTS!

  • emaleroland

    He didn’t live there. His father’s girlfriend lived there. He was only there because he was suspended for the 3rd time and his mother kicked him out of the house where he lived while he was on suspension.

    The most likely reason he didn’t have an access card is two fold:
    1. He was grounded and was not supposed to leave the house.
    2. He left the property and had no way back in although he could have gone to the front and called the home to be let in. He chose to jump the fence.

  • coast

    Hey Rational, our little back and forth has given me a lot to think about. My perspective on the outcome of the case hasn’t changed, but it certainly helps to think about things from another perspective anyway. Your comments seem to be genuine and not based on any racial bias at all. I hope that mine are as well. I awoke this morning to the article on Martin’s father addressing congress. I hate to see this stuff continue. I think we both agreed that this whole thing had nothing to do with race. I only hope that people from my race can let this go and see it for what it was – a tragic event that didn’t really have to happen. Hopefully both neighborhood watch people and others (including those suspected or being watched) can find some take-aways and maybe behave accordingly to preserve lives in the future. Have a good one!

  • Joshua50

    I form my opinions based upon facts, not skin color, media hype, or peer pressure. Individuals like you are simply in denial regarding the facts. I know the truth sometimes hurts, but if you really want to improve your lives and communities, it’s time to get honest and admit that you in fact do have a serious problem.

  • Gammi2Anna

    My husband and his brother took their trucks and equipment to Florida following a hurricane to assist with the clean up.They had to receive security clearance by FEMA and be assigned their clean up area by the FEMA contractors. I based my comment on the ‘FACT’ that when they were sent into a “gated community” the police were called by some of the residents for trespassing. When the police arrived, despite the paperwork my husband supplied, the police told them they were subject to arrest because the contractor had provided notification to the HOA that a clean up crew had been dispatched. They had to stop work and stand in the rain and heat until the contractor could return to resolve the issue. After they were cleared to resume their cleanup work, the residents were very kind, supplying the crew with cold drinks and cookies. BTW, if you are paying HOA fee’s don’t you feel like you’re being ripped off not having your property protected from strangers, possible rapist, robbers or murderers? And if you look at the community photo used in the trial, you will see that the gated community Zimmerman lived in was surrounded by a wall with a “gated entrance” very near where the incident took place. The wall that martin climbed over was very near his fathers girlfriend’s house, which was in the opposite direction that Martin was walking. The girlfriend should have supplied Martin and his father a pass card to enter through the front gate. It was also introduced by the prosecutor that neither the girlfriend nor the father were home at the time of the incident.

  • Gammi2Anna

    Gated communities are in fact meant to provide protection from outside sources that might include rapist, robbers, or murderers. The community residents pay HOA fees to live in gated communities. If a resident has a guest visiting for an extended stay, she would have been required to obtain a pass card for that person to use in order to pass in and out of the gate. The real “facts” are that neither Martin’s father or the girlfriend were not home when the incident happened and did not even know where Trayvon was until several days after the incident. That was the statement made by both Martins mother and father, which makes me wonder just how concerned they were by the fact that their son, who had just been suspended from school for marijuana possession, was missing.

  • Rational_Db8

    Thanks so much Coast! I feel much the same, and no, you didn’t come across as racist at all either. Until this post, in fact, I hadn’t even taken a guess at what race you might happen to be yourself, and I completely agree this case had nothing to do with race. It was a tragedy enough before all the race baiters made it into a national furor, and that they’ve done so disgusts me, and is so discouraging, because it’s so harmful to our nation and to all of us, regardless of color. I’m sure you’re right and that many folks have learned from this at least, and will, as a result, be a bit slower to jump to conclusions or act in fear. I’m afraid others may go exactly the opposite direction too, however. :-( I hope the former outweigh the latter, just as you do. My best to you and yours also! I bet if you and I bumped into each other on the street one day, even if perhaps both of us a little suspicious at first, we’d likely wind up being friends, or at least having a pleasant chat before parting. :0)

  • Rational_Db8

    Provide any reputable reference saying he jumped a fence. There’s a walking cut thru used by residents right near the very corner that’s closest to the 7/11. The community isn’t completely walled.

  • PaxMentis

    New York laws compared to Florida laws…in the end though, both were found not guilty.

  • Kraas

    Someone who could have been intending to mug him.

  • Rational_Db8

    Actually there are many gated communities where there is NO HOA, and no HOA fees – for example apartment complexes. They commonly give residents extra gate passes/keys, so if you have visitors staying with you, you just give them one of your extras.

  • Rational_Db8

    Oh, please. He was living there for the 10 day suspension at least, and who knows if they would have decided to move him there longer term. The mother and aunt/uncle he commonly stayed with 80% of the time!) were having so much trouble with him, it had been decided to send him to live with his father. He may not have had a gate pass on him that night because it wasn’t needed at all – he just went thru the resident’s walking cut thru. I’ve never read ANYWHERE else that he jumped a fence.

  • Roderick Bateman

    Look at all this anti-whitism. In the 60′s, anti-whites forced ALL and ONLY white countries to bring in millions of non-whites. Then anti-whites forced ALL and ONLY white people to “integrate” or face penalties for being “naziswhowantokill6millionjews.” Now anti-whites are praising and counting down the days till ALL and ONLY white children are minorities and extinct EVERYWHERE. That makes it genocide. “Anti-racist” is a codeword for anti-white. /watch?v=lKDeyuM0-Og

  • Tom Briggs Sr

    The real question in this case would be why the major media frenzy? Why would a major network doctor a 911 tape to cause Zimmerman appear to be a racist? Why after a very fair trial and subsequent acquittal the frenzy continues? Hispanics shoot black youths and vice versus every week in L.A., New York, Detroit, Chicago, etc, I hear no out cry about those shootings. There is a agenda here, and believe me it is not in the interests of the ordinary citizen. Money and POWER play a major roll. Do not fall prey to those who would profit from chaos.

  • readthestoryyourself

    Actually, the suggestion might not have been made for the reason you are implying: If the suspicious person was up to no good, the reason they may have not needed him to follow is that they did not want him to put himself in a position where he might get attacked. Who knows the person he is following might break his nose and try to brain him! Especially when that person had a history of using lean and it is known to cause aggressive behavior and paranoia

  • nicholasstix

    In your case, unlike Zimmerman, you would be committing first-degree, premeditated murder: Hunting down a specific person at his home, following him with a deadly weapon, for which you have formed mens rea, and murdering him. (Mens rea: “As an element of criminal responsibility, a guilty mind; a guilty or wrongful purpose; a criminal intent. Guilty knowledge and wilfulness.” (The Free Dictionary/Legal Dictionary)

    Your case would have absolutely nothing in common with Zimmerman’s. Your assertions are on a par with saying that a bank robber has the same right to “withdraw” money from a bank as a depositor.

  • Dante Laboy

    TM wasnt assaulting anyone before GZ started chasing him with a gun. He simply confronted his stalker. Jesus…and how is a basic fist fight somehow a “felonious assault”? Felony assaults involve weapons….maybe TM was beating him with the skittles bag, I suppose. I swear, you morons just love constructing your own realities.

  • Pesky Vrmt

    There was only 2.7 minutes of time that passed between Zimmermans call to the gun shot.

    You validate my point with the fact that Trayvons cell phone gps was not looked into. Fact is, the Police failed to perform their job duties and are the main reason race was brought into this case at all.

  • Genean Ladd

    dr.phill, air the difference of the 2 cases on your show

  • Raven

    If I were a KID being followed by a grown adult first in a car and then on foot, I would be scared and would act defensively. Why was Trayvon not afforded the right to use his fists to defend himself yet George could use a gun? George simply had a better weapon and was able to make sure the only other witness couldn’t testify. But it is quite easy to believe that they BOTH were being defensive and standing their ground. Unfortunately, Trayvon wouldn’t have lost if George had simply COMPLIED with official instruction from a law enforcement agent.

  • kevin

    the 911 operator did not direct him to stay in his car, they asked if he was following Trayvon, then said they did not need him to do that, don’t twist things up like that

  • Mr “C”

    And no riot’s wat a shame !

  • trueblues

    “The
    Neighborhood Watch Program fosters collaboration and cooperation with the
    community and local law enforcement by encouraging citizens to be aware of what
    is going on in their communities and contact law enforcement if they suspect
    something – NOT take the law in their own hands,” continued Executive Director
    Kennard.

    “The alleged participant ignored everything the Neighborhood Watch Program
    stands for and it resulted in a young man losing his life. Our thoughts and
    prayers are with the family of Trayvon Martin during this terrible time.”

  • trueblues

    Stop making up stuff. Trayvon is dead and you are alive. On the night Zimmerman murdered Trayvon he was the one that looked like a thug.

  • Rational_Db8

    That statement was put out less than a month after the situation occurred, while the media was lying and grossly distorting what actually happened, and clearly before Kennard could possibly have had all the information about what occurred. In other words, it’s pretty meaningless.

  • trueblues

    §
    Trayvon
    was chatting merrily away with his friend on his phone minding his own
    business.

    Zimmerman
    walk up to Trayvon and confronted him and by dragging away his phone, Then he
    grabbed Trayvon. Trayvon could be heard saying “get off,get off me”.

    Zimmerman
    seeing this meager kid thought he could practice his 1 year of MMA training and
    boxing and plus he had a gun, but

    he got the shock of his live when he realized that Trayvon was no novice.

    When
    Trayvon and Zimmerman started to fight, sometimes Zimmerman was on top and
    sometimes he was at the bottom- that is how he came to have those scrapes
    because his head was bald, Trayvon had hair and a hoodie on his head preventing

    him from injuries to his head.

    Trayvon
    now straddled Zimmerman restricting his movements. After a few moments of
    fighting Trayvon finally told Zimmerman “you won”. Trayvon released
    the straddle hold he had on Zimmerman and was getting up off Zimmerman when
    Zimmerman reached behind his back, took the gun out of the holster and shot
    Trayvon.

    §
    Zimmerman
    did not do it in self defense ,

    Zimmerman shot Trayvon because he lost the fight and his pride was hurt.

    He
    had 1 year of MMA training and he was not getting any respect from his trainer.

    He wanted to prove to his trainer that he was not a wimp.

  • AllSeasonRadial

    A good defender doesn’t get wounded.

  • DOUBLECW

    A major detail of the two cases that is not highlighted is that Zimmerman never testified under oath and in trial, where he could be cross examined. Roderick Scott did testify. Zimmerman’s accounts have changed, and he says he never pulled his gun until after Martin reached for it. How would Martin know Zimmerman had a gun if it was so dark and raining? Scott said he told the three boys he had a gun and that he called the police. Zimmerman has never stated he told Martin he called the police or had a gun. Had Scott done the same, maybe we’re talking about three dead white teens instead of just one.

    Zimmerman supposedly did nothing to instigate the attack of Martin, couldn’t defend himself in any way, but could clearly shoot Martin in the chest. There is no way to corroborate those facts, because the only other witness is dead. There are attacks you can make that don’t leave marks, and some attacks don’t leave a mark because your aim is poor (like a missed punch). Looking at the police re-enactment it’s understandable that Zimmerman didn’t know what street he was on, since all the townhouses look alike. Why is it hard to believe that Martin (who was rightly visiting the community) may have been lost after running from Zimmerman in the first place? The three boys in the Scott trial weren’t lost. They where drunk and high.

  • Ross6622

    But I think the racial intolerance has greatly increased under this racist president’s tenure.

  • Obama

    I mean that the liberals didn’t attack the Bush girls?

  • truemoboy

    O snappy! Thanks Captain Obvious, but your useless comment has nothing to do with this idiot’s assertion that there is no law “against observing someone”.

    If someone with a gun follows me and accosts me, I’m allowed to defend myself.

  • Aes

    The cases are very similar with of course some significant differences. In some cases GZ got it worse and in other aspects Roderick Scott got it worse but both were cases of When Prosecutors Attack! There is only one book that puts these two cases in perspective and you can get it here: http://amzn.to/1dYHJbY

  • wwj745

    There is another difference. Zimmerman did not leave the safety of his home for the sole reason to confront Martin. Scott did. He should have just called the cops. Zimmerman did just that and was attacked. The evidence bore that fact out.

  • ReadDeeply

    Unlike Martin, this youth was actually committing a crime. Trayvon had done nothing but go to the store. Scott identified himself; zimmerman creeped about, following Martin at least from the 7/11. Forensics show Martin never laid a hand on GZ. There were no marks or scrapes on his hands, save for one small cut that was old and already healing. None of GZ’s DNA was on his hands either. How could that be if Tray had bloodied his nose and then covered his mouth? GZ never identified himself, never even said he suspected Tray of committing a crime and to wait for the police. GZ himself admitted he continued to follow the youth on foot, after wearing him down with his vehicle pursuit, and chased him back around the other way from his father’s door. He admitted sneaking behind the complex to come at Tray from the other direction. Tray was clearly trying to get home, and ran until he was so winded he couldn’t anymore. The two cases have nothing in common.

  • No One Important

    Wronnnnnnnnnnnnnng. . . . .GZ went back to his car, after he was told to stop following him.Wow man, so much ignorance in one post. . . .it’s hard to know where to start. . . . Maybe people like you should put the keyboard down until you learn how to use a basic search engine to get facts rather than post nonsense . . . .

  • No One Important

    “There is no way to corroborate those facts, because the only other witness is dead.”And yet, here are posters, making statements that aren’t true about what GZ did. . . and injecting “well, maybe TM was. . .”. . . .It seems there are many people who will give Scott the benefit of a doubt, but not GZ.Scott wasn’t in any immediate danger. GZ was being beaten.Scott used his gun on people who were involved in a “property” crime. GZ was on the ground screaming. . . (911 tape)So many people here. . . .incapable of logic and higher critical thinking. . . .

  • No One Important

    And major difference here. . . .Scott used his gun on teens committing a property crime. GZ was on 911 tape call screaming in the background.Scott wasn’t in any immediate danger – GZ was being beaten (injuries to prove it). . . Of course, the AA community doesn’t want to give GZ the benefit of the doubt, but will bend over backward to excuse Scott who shot kids for breaking into cars. Nonviolent crime. . . .

  • No One Important

    Scott shot teens who were involved in a property crime. GZ was being beaten. (911 tape with a man screaming in the background).Scott wasn’t in any immediate danger. GZ was being beaten – injuries to prove it.There seems to be a lot of “apologists” on this board who stilllllllllll want to vilify GZ even though he was being beaten. . . and give Scott a pass, when he used a gun on teens involved in a nonviolent crime of theft. . . . .and Scott’s life wasn’t in danger.Don’t get me wrong – I’m not vilifying Scott. If he truly thought he was in danger – that is something legitimate in his mind? I won’t disagree. . .I’m just pointing out the ridiculous hypocrisy of people who still want to vilify GZ, and “hypothesize” about TM being a “good boy”. . . and maybe this, or maybe that. . .when GZ had injuries from being beaten. . .And yet somehow, some people here think that’s perfectly fine for Scott to shoot someone who was stealing property, and GZ was wrong to shoot to save himself as he was being beaten..So ask yourselves, was Scott in any higher danger than GZ was who was on the ground being beaten?Then ask yourself, aren’t you being a bit ridiculous giving Scott a pass, and continuing to vilify GZ?